answers: 35

  1. Andrei
    19.09.2024

    In short, these 108 MP are pure marketing. The manufacturer presents this as the main feature, but did everything to ensure that people never turn on this mode.

    Reply

    • Arkady Shapoval
      20.09.2024

      Well, not exactly, similar pictures at ISO 100 are well worth being. Especially if you work on them later. Lots of detail is good

      Reply

  2. Arcadiy
    19.09.2024

    “Paired slot for two memory cards or one memory card and one microSD flash card (up to 1 TB)” – surely there are two SIMs?

    Reply

    • Arkady Shapoval
      19.09.2024

      Fixed

      Reply

  3. wj
    20.09.2024

    Thanks for the review - I've always been curious about what these multi-pixel mobile sensors can do, but all the reviews I've seen so far weren't written by photographers and therefore didn't go into the subject in depth enough.

    Reply

  4. Sergei
    20.09.2024

    There is such a concept as the diffraction limit of resolution.
    The optical resolution limit of an ideal lens is 1,22 µm for green.
    And the matrix of this smartphone has a pixel size of 0,64 microns.
    Experts recommend stopping at a 48 MP matrix and improving it. Increase the dynamic range, improve light sensitivity (quantum efficiency), and work on the quality of the optics.
    But today all manufacturers rushed after inflated marketing figures and image improvement using post-processing methods – purely “computational photography”

    Reply

    • Arkady Shapoval
      20.09.2024

      AI and algorithms to combat diffraction will help, the same Canon has long had the ability to combat diffraction in RAW. It's a matter of time and power

      Reply

      • Sergei
        21.09.2024

        The coolest camera phone to date according to DXOMARK rating, Huawei Pura 70 Ultra, has only 40 and 50 MP sensors.
        Although they could have installed 108 or 200 MP.

        Reply

      • Arkady Shapoval
        21.09.2024

        DXOMARK has the sharpest lens there - that's it. Chinese 85/1,8 for 100 bucks...

        Reply

      • Sergei
        21.09.2024

        This Yongnuo 85mm/1,8 is currently in sixth place.
        https://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/

        Reply

  5. Anna
    20.09.2024

    smartphones – take it out, take a photo and immediately get a great result. You can’t guess whether it’s a DSLR or not

    Reply

    • Arkady Shapoval
      20.09.2024

      if the camera has a 28/5.6 wide angle lens, then it really won't be easy to tell the difference. But any lens can be installed on cameras with interchangeable optics, which gives more flexibility

      Reply

  6. Natalia
    20.09.2024

    Shoots beautifully)
    Beautiful color rendering of lights!
    Will leave no work for photographers))
    Although skillful hands will always be relevant))

    Reply

    • Arkady Shapoval
      21.09.2024

      thanks, one user on youtube couldn't tell the difference between pictures from this phone and from 70-210/4, which already says something

      Reply

  7. Fedor
    21.09.2024

    That's it! And Radozhiva was captured by pokes... She held out for a long time and then gave in! Apparently there will soon be no resources left about photography...

    Reply

  8. Irina
    21.09.2024

    Interesting and informative review. The photos are wonderful).
    Thanks for the work!

    Reply

  9. Rodion
    22.09.2024

    I'll throw a mega-idea to Samsung engineers. If it's so hard to make an array of very small color filters, and the final color information is easier to obtain using algorithms and AI, then I suggest making a monochrome honest 108 MP array, and let your beloved AI colorize the photos itself - just let the user say what skin tone he needs and how many colors of the rainbow.

    Reply

    • Arkady Shapoval
      22.09.2024

      on your a7s, the non-existent color is extracted from 12 MP subpixels in exactly the same way, turning them into a full 12 million color pixels. Roughly speaking, there is only data for 3 MP in color (12/4 subpixels) and 12 in resolution. So this is a kind of proposal, here with 108 MP of “real” color there is the same amount – 3 MP (conditional), but the resolution is still 108m

      Reply

      • Rodion
        22.09.2024

        That's right. 1/3 of the color resolution of the total. But at least not 1/27. It's like comparing the influence of monochromatic and chromatic aberrations. For example, on my A7s, the resolution is considered to be limited by the number of pixels in general, that is, by the conditionally "monochromatic" component. Are you sure that in the case of a 108 MP matrix with a curved arrangement of filters, the resolution is really determined by the same principle? I am absolutely sure that it is not, because the distribution of filters, that is, the color resolution, in this case will definitely limit the maximum resolution. Therefore, such a 108 MP sensor will not be equivalent to a 108 MP sensor with an array of filters with a Bayer pattern. I think your assumption is incorrect.

        Reply

      • Arkady Shapoval
        22.09.2024

        here there is a substitution “with a crooked arrangement of filters”. Who said that the a7s filters are “straight”. The Bayer pattern is a mathematical abstraction (hello from at least two green components to 1 red and 1 blue). The color resolution may be more difficult to restore than with a regular Bayer, but this is a matter of mathematical models that will not give a linear drawdown to 1/27. As an example - tetracel c 2*2, where it is quite easy to understand the principle of debayering with another "bypass" of the pattern. with 3*3 it is more difficult (visually it is more difficult to understand mathematics with a nanocell). In addition, there are real examples where it is really hard to say that there was a tricky “restoration” of color. And in fact, the brain of a monkey-human is unlikely to be able to determine this. Example (which is in the review).

        Reply

      • Rodion
        22.09.2024

        Yes, a substitution. The Bayer pattern is not ideal, of course, but the 9x9 cell is clearly worse. Substitution of concepts is when such matrices are directly compared with conventional ones in resolution using the notorious number of megapixels, but in fact, with the same architecture, the resolution of the sensor with a Bayer array will be higher than with an array of filters grouped into 9x9 cells. Because in the latter case, details will be lost due to low color resolution.

        Reply

      • Arkady Shapoval
        22.09.2024

        "Color resolution" came into play. What will it be in monochrome?

        Reply

      • Rodion
        22.09.2024

        In grayscale without demosaicing, 108 MP will be 108 MP. However, there is a problem here too: the pixel size is 640 nm, which gives problems with diffraction in visible light of 400-700 nm, and this is if the lens is of ideal quality, which is definitely not to be expected from this phone - this is clearly visible in the sidebars in the review. The lens clearly will not resolve so much in monochrome, and even less so in color.
        The only non-marketing reason why the sensor was put into the phone is that this sensor is available. The sensor itself can be used quite reasonably with high-quality optics for, for example, imaging in the short-wave region - here the pixel size will be acceptable.

        Now, if we move to color, how can this work? The simplest possible model is multisampling. This is already a limitation in itself, since it ~doubles the reaction time. Let's say we take a photo in "108" MP, then immediately in full binning "12" MP. Or vice versa, it doesn't matter. The small photo after demosaicing according to Bayer provides color information for the large photo. We stretch the color from the small photo to the large one. In this case, I think it is clear that we will get a decrease in quality due to the fact that the brightness information is reliable for the large photo, and the color information was interpolated. The effect of such an image defect is similar to the effect of longitudinal chromatic aberrations of their optics - the resolution will be reduced, no matter how many megapixels you draw. Of course, the algorithm can be more complex, with the participation of demosaicing of a large photo, then the loss of information will be less, but still they cannot be avoided.

        Therefore, the Isocell 9×9 matrix in the “108 MP” mode will not give 108 MP equivalent to the same 108 MP obtained from the same matrix with a Bayer filter. Although the gain in comparison with the usual 12 MP is noticeable.
        In the same way, a Bayer matrix “108 MP” will not give a resolution (not file size, but resolving power) higher than a system like the old 3CCD of three monochrome matrices with 108 MP. Thus, there is no sense in 108 MP at the output of the phone matrix: after all, neither the matrix itself, nor the optics are capable of providing such a high resolution. There would be fewer complaints if it had something more “honest” in terms of file size at the output.

        I am leading this discussion to the fact that the user should be able to understand what he is buying and how it at least approximately actually works, what are the pros and cons of the device he is using. Files of 50 meters will simply quickly fill up the phone's memory, and the PC's disks, and the cloud. What is the point of them if the same result will be given by smaller files? And the burning question: do you really need 108 MP to take pictures of cats on the street and documents at work?

        Reply

      • Arkady Shapoval
        23.09.2024

        Well, I don’t have any cats or documents in my review – what’s my problem?

        Reply

      • Rodion
        23.09.2024

        So you don't have cats in your review only because there are no strays on the streets of Belgium. Otherwise there would definitely be some)))

        Reply

      • Arkady Shapoval
        23.09.2024

        It was a counterexample that destroyed your entire canvas.

        Reply

      • Rodion
        23.09.2024

        In sarcasm if

        Reply

      • grindamere
        24.09.2024

        Such sensors have an interesting technology – Staggered HDR. This is when each 108MP cell shoots with different shutter speeds and glues everything together into 12MP, you get a classic HDR, but from one frame.

        Reply

      • Arkady Shapoval
        24.09.2024

        there is no Staggered HDR here (as it was, for example here), and WDR SMART ISO PRO based on two matrix body kits with different sensitivities. This is described in the text

        Reply

  10. Alexander Rifeev
    25.09.2024

    I am delighted :-))) It is always interesting to listen to the conversation of such smart people :-)))

    Reply

  11. Alexey
    26.09.2024

    On my Redmi note 10 pro, also 108 MP from Samsung, but one of the early ones. When shooting at maximum resolution, it is not even close to the quality that this Blackview has. Wild interpolation, you can take a regular 12 MP photo, stretch it 9 times, and get the same as what a phone does in 108 MP resolution. I have a feeling that on my Redmi, these overpixels are exclusively for binning.
    The size of my 108 MP jpg in maximum quality is 11 MB

    Reply

  12. Alexander Rifeev
    26.09.2024

    here the creators have implemented what has long been suggested - hardware or software (as you like) combining several pixels into one super-pixel - bypassed the vile diffraction on a sharp turn :-)

    Reply

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