Some thoughts about mirrorless cameras and their batteries.
![MILC (Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera), DSLM (Digital Single Lens Mirrorless), EVIL (Electronic Viewfinder Interchangeable Lens [Electronic Viewfinder Interchangeable Lens])](https://radojuva.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/milc-dslm-evil.jpg)
MILC (Mscary Iinterchangeable Lens Camera [mirrorless interchangeable-lens camera]), D.S.L.M. (Digital Sgroin Lens Mirrorless [digital single-lens mirrorless]), EVIL (Electronic Viewfinder Iinterchangeable Lens [with electronic viewfinder and interchangeable-lens]). Clickbait!
- No mirror control mechanism (no need to lower and raise a pair of two mirrors)
- No separate exposure meter (separate sensor in the area of pentaprism or pentamirror)
- No separate focusing module (separate sensor under the main mirror)
- There is no aperture control mechanism (critical for some SLR systems, for example: Nikon F, Pentax K, Sony / Konica-Minolta). In older Nikon DSLRs, this is one of the main consumers of battery power.
- No backlight LCD display with more information in JVI
- There is no electrical body kit for all these mechanisms, on which power losses occur
True, in mirrorless cameras:
- Maybe EVI (which can be turned off or toggled the display on the main display)
A feature of mirrorless cameras is the always-on matrix (sensor) of the camera, which creates the main problem of quickly discharging the battery. In addition to the fact that the mirrorless matrix itself is constantly working, the processor is constantly working, which debayering images and the formation of a preview image for EVI and / or a display with multiple enhancement settings.
Roughly speaking, mirrorless cameras have fewer mechanical power consumers: mechanical shutter, aperture control mechanism, lens image stabilizer / camera image stabilizer, autofocus drive, and automatic zoom drive for some lenses.
My experience
If you shoot a lot and constantly (intensively), then the number of frames per battery charge from mirrorless cameras may not be inferior to similar SLR cameras.
Example: Sony Alpha ILCE-3500 on one charge of the original battery with a small capacity SONY NP-FW50 Li-ion 7.2V 1080mAh with intensive shooting of reportage with an autofocus lens Carl Zeiss Sonnar E 1,8 / 24 ZA T * (Sony SEL24F18Z) easily takes more than 3000 frames. The same goes for, for example, the Sony A7M3 and many other cameras. Actually, it was this circumstance that served as the impetus for the creation of this short note.
The number of frames (shutter releases) is not the most objective parameter by which to judge the lifespan of a mirrorless camera on a single battery. For mirrorless cameras, it is still better to indicate the time when the EVI and / or main display or maximum video recording time.
Personally, I don't bother with the problem of mirrorless camera batteries at all. This is not what a photographer should be thinking about. I always have extra batteries or spare cameras in stock. I am not even embarrassed by the extra 4-5 batteries in the backpack on some long hike. If you love photography, love to carry photographic equipment. For work, almost any mirrorless camera is enough for classic photo shoots from 1 to 3 hours or other everyday tasks of the photographer.
Write your records for the number of frames per charge for DSLRs and / or mirrorless cameras in the comments.
Materials on the topic
- Full frame mirrorless systems... Discussion, choice, recommendations.
- Cropped mirrorless systems... Discussion, choice, recommendations.
- Cropped mirrorless systems that have stopped or are no longer developing
- Digital SLR systems that have stopped or are no longer developing
- JVI or EVI (an important article that answers the question 'DSLR or mirrorless')
- About mirrorless batteries
- Simple and clear medium format
- High-speed solutions from Chinese brands
- All fastest autofocus zoom lenses
- All fastest AF prime lenses
- Mirrored full frame on mirrorless medium format
- Autofocus Speed Boosters
- One lens to rule the world
- The impact of smartphones on the photography market
- What's next (smartphone supremacy)?
- All announcements and novelties of lenses and cameras
Material prepared Arkady Shapoval. Training/Consultations | Youtube | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | Telegram
“I always have extra batteries or cameras in stock” - and I always have an extra photographer in stock!
Sometimes I have the same thing, and sometimes I myself can be the second photographer
If you take the third, then you don't have to take cameras. :)
a few years ago I remade the batblock of my 50d for 2 Akum 18650. The record of frames from a pair at 2600mAh is 12k frames. With the display off, working autofocus in the next mode. For the last 1000-1500 frames, the camera was regularly cut down, but after turning off / on it worked for another 5 minutes, then the procedure was repeated)
Isn't the canon's batblock designed for a pair of original batteries, the total capacity of which corresponds to two 18650 batteries at 2600mAh? According to the owners, the 50d is quite gluttonous and draws about 600-700 frames from one battery charge, with a batblock, therefore, twice as much - about 1500.
In general, the figure of 12k frames from two cans at 2600 looks pretty bold))
Battery packs for different kenon cameras are different, there are also those where there is a removable magazine for 6 AA anything (batteries or rechargeable batteries) in the kit, I have enelups in this and they are charged in it, I broke them out to pull out each connector.
This does not negate the fact that 12k frames at 50d from a single charge of batteries with a capacity of under 20W / h is a suspicious figure :)
The native 511th battery has a capacity of 2800 mAh. Maybe you still pushed six of them into the butblock instead of the battery tab? A native battery is simply two 18 650 in a plastic case.
Are you sure you are not confusing anything?
Native BP-511 has a capacity of 1100 mA / h, BP-511A (the one that went exactly to 50d) - 1390mA / h
In the "mirror" batteries there are batteries with a standard size of 18500, the capacity limit of which in those years was just about 1400-1500 mA / h.
I counted two 511As in the batblock, I had to clarify.
I also thought to remake the butblock to D7100, but the real capacity of 18650 is only 3000-3300mAh, native - about 1900. You can take 20700, their capacity reaches 5000mAh, but the price of two 20700 is already approaching the price of the non-original En-EL15 + labor costs for the alteration ...
Now we have D7100, D7200, D750 on hand (all with batblocks), as a result there are 3 original batteries and 2 non-original ones. Everyone has different batblocks, their "inserts" are incompatible with each other, so he refused the idea of reworking. It's easier to take a spare battery with you in your bag / backpack than to constantly carry a heavier device in your hands. But if you really want to drag the weight, you can put one battery in the carcass + one in the butblock.
The most correct thing is to take something like SONY NP-F970, put it in your pocket / bag and connect it to the cameras with a cable.
No, the wires to the camera are definitely a perversion!
Far from it! I shot a lot on Sony Betakam, I wore batteries for the camera and for the on-camera projector on my belt, it was hard, and the camera itself was bulky and heavy, but everything was relatively convenient. And now I sometimes carry external batteries to my DSLR.
Do not confuse photo and video shooting, whatever one may say, these are different tasks. I also connected an external microphone and a PowerBank to the camcorder (and this is to an inexpensive amateur camcorder, I generally keep quiet about the 'pro'). Photography assumes greater freedom of grip (IMHO), change of optics, change of camera orientation. I prefer a camera in camera mode with a minimum of body kit (I don’t consider the butblock body kit, for me it is an integral part of it) - that is, the carcass, optics and r / synchronizer (if necessary, external light).
Everything is so - the ideal operating mode of the bzk from the point of view of battery consumption is frequent continuous shooting, so you can get the maximum number of frames per charge, sometimes significantly exceeding that obtained from SLR cameras with batteries of the same capacity.
If you shoot singly and aim for a long time each frame, the number of frames is expected to be significantly reduced.
I didn't deal with mirrorless cameras, but I can write about different scenarios for using one battery. Compact camera Canon G6 and analogue battery BP-511, 500 frames in hike mode, Canon 50D same battery - 250 in hike mode, shooting whatever is there with the display off, framing in the viewfinder, many times turned on the camera and thought how to shoot took off a couple I turned off the frames, Canon 50D when shooting a concert 800-1200, the second if there is a lot of continuous shooting (high ISO, series, intensive shooting when this thousand is in a couple of hours), everything without a flash and in the same hands, the battery is not the same, namely that one and that the same.
I never even reach the CIPA standard))
An old MFT Panasonic Lumix G3 mirrorless camera on a native battery shoots only about 250 frames per charge. The battery pack is not available for this model.
DSLR Canon 77D. Usually, one battery has about 1500 frames (and about the same number of frames fits on an SD 64GB, so I often change both at once as soon as the first ends).
On the Canon 600D, it turned out to be smaller - a little over 1000 frames (and it also filled approximately SD 32GB - the ratios were noticeably smaller).
let's so “how long can you be in the opportunity to take a quick shot for a DSLR and bzk”?
And also - how much energy is consumed by bzk and zk per frame with an average shooting of 500 frames per hour?
My old Canon 1100D camera somehow worked as a second camera at a family's wedding, on one battery it lasted more than 1000 frames, (although the flash was external with its own power) showed another division, but was replaced with a reserve just in case. After a couple of days, as always, without charging the camera, I went to take pictures of landscapes and managed to take another 250 shots before turning off. Battery LP-E10 860 mAh. On the UPC (Nikon1 V1, Olympus Pen EPL-6) a maximum of 500 frames and then in the mode turned on, removed, turned off.
I don’t have any records, but in fact I have been using a mirrorless camera for a long time, and I’ll even buy the same one again for the whole which it serves, namely for reprinting books to create a digital version. My Pentax K-01 will give odds to many other cameras in this regard. Only now it has not deteriorated in any way, it works like new and has not even changed in appearance, contrary to some observers, even the rubber parts are as new. The number of captured frames is now about 300000. So when I reshoot books, his battery lasts exactly 3800 frames, of course, my screen is off at that time, and he never had an EVI. Once, for the sake of interest, I reshomed books on my Nokon D3s. The result is 19000 frames (the battery was not native, simple Chinese for $ 28). By the way, I did it on Nikon D5100 too, there was a result of 3900 frames.
I shoot with nikon d5 up to 4000 frames on one battery charge and don't worry at all. one problem - heavy and cumbersome
I have an old man d700 on one charge of the original good Akum also holds 4000 (RAW, autofocus optics)
I had my first Canon 350D DSLR, so I bought a bat-block for it and filled it with six AA-accumulators of 2700mA / h each. In those years it turned out to be a little expensive, but I charged the device 2-3 times a year. For 2,5 years, I clicked 300000+ frames ...
300000 shots, charge even 3 times a year, 2.5 years….
Is this about 35000 frames from one battery charge with a capacity of only 20 W / h?)))
If we are talking about nickel metal hydride (NiMH) batteries - yes, they are good, but they have two drawbacks - they charge for a long time (2700s for about a day) and quickly degrade in capacity. In addition, their voltage is 1.2 volts, so the camera is cut down long before they gave up all their capacity, as a result, it turns out that 2700 mA / h is very optimistic. I had a Nikon superzoom with four of these, a Canon soap dish with two of these, at first I thought that fingers were an awesome feature, then I was disappointed in them. How many frames I shot on one charge - I will not say, I did not count. Now I only use them in a homemade backlight.
Iskander, 15 years ago at Sanyo, damned capitalists invented Eneloop batteries (and then sold to even more damned capitalists from Panasonic). They not only do not degrade for years, they still keep the charge for years. I use these for flashes, and our capitalist company equips all capitalist mice with them. If there is time and there is no laziness, I will charge six batteries, put them in baht. block and count how many frames I shoot.
In general, there is some truth in the words of Ixander))
Lithium is also economically more justified (one Panasonic 18650 at 3600mAh costs even a little cheaper than three white enelups, and gives much more energy), and takes less volume, and charges faster (there is also a quick charge for enelups, but this is still their abnormal mode work, which reduces the number of charge-discharge cycles, and for lithium - standard).
Enelups by themselves are justified (IMHO) only when used in a low-temperature environment, for example, outside in winter, where lithium fails, yes.
Any remotes, flashes. And LiIon in the AA / AAA form factor seems to have been made somehow somehow.
I agree with the remotes (but it is more expedient to use batteries there, due to the scanty consumption :))
Outbreaks (lazy manufacturers) are barely starting to translate into Li-ion, thank God.
In the AA form factor, lithium has existed for a long time, but:
- 1,5 volt only non-rechargeable
- those that were rechargeable - had a standard voltage for lipoles - 4,2V in a fully charged state, which is not suitable for powering conventional devices designed for a 1,5V battery.
Roman, it will be interesting. And it will be interesting to measure the residual voltage on the battery after the camera turns off (and roughly deduct the percentage of the remaining charge). I had about 1 volt on each battery, the camera could no longer work at that voltage, but when inserted into a flashlight, it could shine for quite some time. I'm talking about a practical, useful capacity. The self-discharge period of years, of course, is impressive, but relevant for a camera lying on a shelf or stored in a bomb shelter in case of a nuclear war. Well, for a flash or illuminator - yes.
Well, there are still ordinary batteries on the fotik, but lithium sits down clearly faster. But for flashes it is generally good if you need it urgently, because when the need arises, there is no more change for a charge. Plus, they deliver high currents much better than conventional batteries and cheap NiMHs.
there is no practical sense in measuring the voltage on the batteries removed from the camera. only under load.
I would say that not even the voltage, but the battery charge current.
Em. where does the CHARGE? the person wanted to know how many volts the camera usually discharges the battery. I conducted such experiments using a laboratory power supply unit.
I have Maha, I can and discharge to zero with the measurement of the residual charge.
It's just that I often came across when the battery shows its maximum rated voltage, but at the same time it is completely empty. Therefore, I always measure only the current on all batteries. The tension is not informative for me.
“It's just that I often come across when the battery shows its maximum rated voltage, but is completely empty.” explain why so, or do you yourself know? :)
I am a radio engineer, I know a lot. Here, after all, a photo forum, not an electronics lovers club. Do not go deep into the jungle.
I have an eneloupe charging for three hours and with a full discharge they have the same voltage as their native lithium ones with a full discharge. (6 pieces at 1V per can vs 2 pieces at 3V per can) and it costs less than native lithium. we are talking about the LP-E6, of course.
Well, with the native lithium LP-E6, it's understandable, but somewhere higher people wrote that instead of fingers, they inserted two 18650s into the butt-block, this will already be more profitable and more "long-playing".
There are also non-native and quite norms, moreover, much cheaper. Out of five batteries, it was my own (the only one) that died first. Although used evenly by all. In principle, there are no complaints.
And I have a question for those in the know: "DSLR", with mechanical on / off. the camera uses a lot of energy. Yes, the “falling asleep” time is set, the camera turns off, but how is it correct? Thanks.
Awakening a DSLR consumes very little energy. Turn on / off too. True, usually the sensor cleaning function is on / off, it can take a little. Sometimes, when idle, the exposure meter spends a lot, its time is usually adjusted before falling asleep.
Arkady, thank you. That is, mechanical “clicking” (and the resource is not unlimited) is completely unnecessary ...
The SLR (in any case, Nikon) does not really make much sense to turn off, after the exposure meter falls asleep (it takes about a minute), the current consumption of the device is the same as in the “off” one (in fact, not quite, because the card reader is being polled for free space of the used memory card, which is displayed on the additional display) state, and is kept in the region of near-zero values.
Yes you are right. For interest, I looked at the service instructions for the film F65 and digital D90. And here and there, the current consumption of the turned on and off cameras is the same.
Yet:
When idle, it is not the exposure meter that works, but the whole camera. Then goes to sleep.
And what else in the camera in standby mode works besides the exposure meter? The matrix is not involved, the AF module too, the displays are turned off (b / w does not count), the processor has nothing special to process, the consumption is also a penny.
the processor itself is powered (more precisely, both processors - both digic (one or two, depending on which camera) and mpu), although it periodically switches to idle mode, the lens electronics are still powered, but not the power, but its logical part. the memory card is being polled, the buttons are polled although there is a difference - if the camera is one, then a separate matrix with a separate digic is in charge of exposure metering, and this already consumes decently.
In Nikon D90, the LCD of the focusing screen is always powered (this can be seen if you remove the battery from the camera - the image through the viewfinder will darken), not to mention the upper display, where the frame counter is displayed when the camera is off. And in old DSLRs, the shutdown button is not a guarantee of a complete power off. On my Nikon F65, the batteries were constantly discharged during prolonged storage in the camera. After that, I began to take them out and now put them on only for the duration of the shooting. Then I found a service manual for it and found out that this is not a malfunction, there is a small permissible leakage current.
On all Nikons, the pentaprism display is always powered, only it consumes almost nothing, more precisely, its control circuit consumes nothing. and the b / w display is above or behind, (who has two of them), also consumes microamperes, there its own driver controls it. on nikons it is usually NJM2143, and on kenons bu97981
Microamperes are also current. The hen bites by the grain, a dripping tap consumes liters of water over time. Microamperes drain batteries over time.
If it came to the point that "microamperes drain batteries", then instead of using it more on the shelf, the camera lays for months (!!!), which, as you understand, is not gut;)
I can say about q90 that after 1.5 years of inactivity of the camera in the nightstand, the charge did not drop at all. That is, the battery showed 100%
Victor, just after the transition to digital, the film camera began to be used very sporadically.
Arkady, it is surprising that in 1,5 years with a leakage current of 250 μA and with a natural self-discharge of the battery, the indicator showed 100% charge.
GPS. Which, if you forget to turn it off, will survive like I don't know what. But you can track how much you dashed on this damn bus on this damn desert.
what a fortune that in my cameras there is no GPS, WiFi, BT, or NFC, or all these newfangled things))
Well, GPS is a useful thing. And WiFi is also not so bad when you do not carry a computer with you, but you want to share a photo right now. Even if it is a cat who has eaten berries on the railway - I want to know in which basement it was filmed :) And if you travel, also intensively and lightly - so much the more. It's easier for a friend to poke a geotag from a photo somewhere on the map than to explain how to get there.
Roman, for these purposes, a smartphone will do just fine.
If you do not need it, you can turn it off) What a disaster that you cannot turn off the video function on Nikons - this is very unpleasant
“I’m an old soldier and I don’t know the words of love”, ugh, crossed out, I’m an old paranoid and I have no desire to tell anything about myself, and even more so my location to anyone. because next to me all this is always disabled. and when I give someone a photo, then very carefully, with a red eraser, bit by bit, I clean the EXIF of each frame :)
Unfortunately, this is not possible in the modern world. “Big Brother” is always watching us! Even with the functions turned off, even without power. I suspect that even in the absence of the declared functions in the device. Sometimes it's even scary to approach the refrigerator - what if the manufacturer installed hidden cameras with a microphone?
no modern camera has a “switch” that would actually turn off the power. the so-called "switch" simply puts the processor into sleep mode. on kenons, the same action produces the opening of the memory card compartment cover. moreover, it is considered a regular way to “turn off” the camera and put it into sleep mode.
Recent "record" on one original EN-EL15 - 2850 frames on Nikon D750 + 70-300_AF-S; the absolute record I recorded - 4428 shots on a single charge (Nikon D750 + AF-S-optics with stabilizer), with 17% still remaining - shooting in small bursts of 2-3 frames, with periodic review of the last captured frames, operating time - 6 -8 hours of intense shooting.
On the Lumix G5, I once very quickly took 550 frames (this is more than the camera can “according to the documents) and the screen showed another two-thirds of the remaining battery. But the frames, of course, were peeling at high speed, rather monotonous for a subject. Since then, I have had a doubt that "mirrorless cameras consume more energy." The best part is that many models allow you to “fold” the screen inward and consume almost no energy until you bring your eye to the viewfinder.
Consume without a large display. The matrix is consuming. But with a viewfinder, of course, it's more economical. Also on Lumix you can shoot in electronic shutter mode, 20 frames per second (depending on the model). If you count according to this criterion, then thousands of shots can be taken on a single charge. I think that Arkady in the survey meant the average mode of shooting parameters, and not the most simplified or complicated one.
Has anyone tried attaching a camera to a motorcycle battery? It is large and lighter than a car
A bad idea in general: the lead battery is still large and heavy (or I am not aware of modern motorcycle batteries) and the specific capacity is noticeably lower than that of Li-ion, plus voltage conversion is necessary (lowering or raising). I tried it a long time ago, when it was difficult with lithium batteries. Now it makes no sense, it's easier to dial the required capacity from the 18650.
I think the man was just joking.
Sony a55 with a one-year-old FW50 battery and a Sigma 18-250 lens with stabilization on, in 20 minutes of shooting in short bursts of 800 frames, battery discharge from 100% to 80%.
The lens used for shooting plays an important role.
In the case of native Sony amateur fixes (35, 50, 85 mm), the consumption is less.
Enabling stabilization in a lens or camera consumes more energy.
Lenses with large and heavy lisoblocks also consume more.
A slow shutter speed (night shooting) also drains the battery a lot.
For cameras with a translucent mirror, it is better to always cover the lens with a cap when the camera is turned on, this is not much, but it saves energy and does not have to wait for the camera to turn on with full initialization.
The built-in flash also consumes a lot, but there were cases that the battery could withstand shooting about 400 frames (about 80% of which with a flash).
The air temperature and, accordingly, the camera also plays a role, in the cold I could stand a couple of hundred frames, in the relative heat the battery is also discharged more strongly, the air temperature is optimally 15-20 degrees, and in the cold the batteries are taken out and hidden in a glove or inside pocket.
At the Soneforum, native and non-native batteries were tested for survivability by viewing the photo on the built-in screen in demo mode.
Snia on nikon z50, only 300-350 frames can be made on one battery 💁♂️
do you have a lens with a stub?
for Z50 batteries for $ 100 are sold
Sony A7M2 - 2350 frames and 20 minutes of video on DSTE NP-FW50 battery, 4 hours of shooting, monitor only.