Fallen Digital Mirror Systems

A small historical excursion into digital SLR cameras (CZK) that stopped their development (they simply died, or switched to mirrorless side).

About the dead TsZK

About the dead TsZK

Contax N Digital

Contax N Digital, the first digital full frame, announced on July 18, 2000 and discontinued around 2002. Only a few autofocus lenses were released for the Nontax N system:

  1. Carl Zeiss Planar 1,4 / 50 T * (for Contax N)
  2. Carl Zeiss Planar 1,4 / 85 T * (for Contax N)
  3. Carl Zeiss Makro-Sonnar 1: 2.8 f = 100mm T * (for Contax N)
  4. Carl Zeiss Tele-Apotessar 4/400 T * (for Contax N)
  5. Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 2.8 / 17-35 T * (for Contax N)
  6. Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 3,5-4,5 / 24-85 T * (for Contax N)
  7. Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 3,5-5,6 / 28-80 T * (for Contax N)
  8. Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 3,5-4,5 / 70-200 T * (for Contax N)
  9. Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 4-5,6 / 70-300 T * (for Contax N)

Kodak (architecture PRO 14)

There were only 3 Kodak DSLR cameras (namely classic cameras, not digital backs on the chassis of film cameras):

  1. Kodak DCS PRO 14n (Nikon F mount) presented September 24, 2002
  2. Kodak DCS Pro SLR / n (Nikon F mount) introduced February 12, 2004
  3. Kodak DCS Pro SLR / c (Canon EF), introduced March 18, 2004

Some of these cameras were in subversion with a monochrome sensor, some with additional upgrades of the buffer memory and sensor.

All these cameras are full-frame, with very, very interesting features. Incredible tools for his time. Unfortunately, the special camera architecture 'PRO 14 Digital Camera Architecture', on which these cameras were based, did not receive further development and Kodak DSLRs ceased to develop.

Due to the fact that Kodak CZK used Nikon / Canon mounts, it cannot be said that Kodak was a full-fledged digital mirror system.

Subsequently, Kodak in the world of narrow format could see only one weak attempt to develop in the face of a mirrorless camera Kodak Pixpro S-1.

Fujifilm

As early as January 2000, Fujifilm began to produce its own CZKs, which were based on some Nikon film cameras, from which the Fujifilm CZKs used the Nikon F mount and lenses and peripherals from Nikon cameras.

  1. Fujifilm FinePix S1 Pro
  2. Fujifilm FinePix S2 Pro
  3. Fujifilm FinePix S3 Pro + version Fujifilm FinePix S3 Pro UVIR
  4. Fujifilm FinePix S5 Pro + version Fujifilm FinePix IS Pro

This is not to say that it was a full-fledged mirror system, but at the same time, the heart of these cameras was Fujifilm's own unique development.

The last of the CJC Fujifilm was introduced back in 2007. Five years later, on January 10, 2012 Fujifilm began to produce a complete system in the face of mirrorless cropped cameras Fujifilm X, and a little later, medium format mirrorless Fujifilm gx.

Samsung

Samsung has released its CZK and lenses to them, which were just a rebranding of some Pentax lenses and cameras.

Samsung GX cameras:

  1. Samsung GX-1S (Pentax * ist DS2 copy)
  2. Samsung GX-1L (Pentax * ist DL2 copy)
  3. Samsung GX-10 (copy Pentax K10D)
  4. Samsung GX-20 (copy Pentax K20D)

Lenses Samsung / Schneider-Kreuznach:

In theory, all lenses existed under the names 'Samsung' and 'Schneider-Kreuznach' at the same time, but sometimes only one spelling of the name could be found on sale.

Samsung GX is completely dead. In the future, the company began to develop a mirrorless system Samsung NX (and NX-M) that befell the same fate.

Konica Minolta

Cameras use A mount.

There were only 2 CZK Konica Minolta:

  1. Konica Minolta Dynax 7d (camera also sold under the names Konica Minolta Alpha [α] 7D и Konica Minolta Maxxum 7D), presented on September 15, 2004
  2. Konica Minolta Dynax 5d (camera also sold under the names Konica Minolta Alpha [α] Sweet Digital и Konica Minolta Maxxum 5D), presented July 15, 2005

Original Konica Minolta DT lenses for cameras with APS-C sensor:

  1. Konica Minolta AF DT Zoom 11-18mm 1: 4.5 (22) -5.6 D later issued under the name Sony DT 4.5-5.6 / 11-18 (SAL1118) (most likely similar Tamron model a13)
  2. Konica Minolta AF Zoom DT 18-70mm f / 3.5-5.6 (D) Macro later issued under the name Sony DT 3.5-5.6 / 18-70mm MACRO
  3. Konica Minolta AF Zoom DT 18-200mm f / 3.5-6.3 (D) was later released under the name Sony DT 3.5-6.3 / 18-200 (most likely similar Tamron AF 18-200mm f / 3.5-6.3 (IF) Aspherical LD ​​XR DiII Macro Model A14 и PROMASTER DIGITAL XR EDO AF Aspherical LD ​​(IF) 18-200mm 1: 3.5-6.3 Macro)

From Konica Minolta [α]Alpha and traces its pedigree to the Sony Alpha [α] camera series. The Konica Minolta photo brand was taken over by Sony. Konica Minolta's 'classic' CPCs are completely dead.

Sigma

Bayonet Sigma SA. The cameras were and remain very interesting thanks to the unusual Foveon X3 image sensor:

  • Sigma SD9, February 18, 2002, Foveon X3 with a sensor size of 20.7 mm X 13.8 mm, Kf = 1.74X
  • Sigma SD10, October 27, 2003, Foveon X3 with a sensor size of 20.7 mm X 13.8 mm, Kf = 1.74X
  • Sigma SD14March 6, 2007, Foveon X3 with a sensor size of 20.7 mm X 13.8 mm, Kf = 1.74X
  • Sigma SD15, February 20, 2010, Foveon X3 with a sensor size of 20.7 mm X 13.8 mm, Kf = 1.74X
  • Sigma SD1September 21, 2010, Foveon X3 APS-C Kf = 1.5X
  • Sigma sd1 merril, February 2012, Foveon X3 APS-C Kf = 1.5X

The last camera was born in 2012, and further development of the lineup was virtually discontinued. To replace the last SLR camera Sigma sd1 merril mirrorless came out in 2016 Sigma sd quattro и Sigma sd quattro hfurther development of which will also be discontinued or replaced with full-frame Sigma cameras based on the Foveon sensor.

There are a lot of cropped lenses for Sigma SA, and there is no way to list them all. Some crooked Sigma lenses for the Sigma SA mount are still available. Despite his decent age, Sigma sd1 merril still considered an actual camera. And the survivability of the Sigma SA mount is also due to the fact that mirrorless cameras Sigma sd quattro и Sigma sd quattro h also use the Sigma SA 'mirror' mount. But the Sigma SA CPC have no further development.

Sony (DSLR!)

Sony's classic SLR cameras have also ceased to exist. They were replaced by cameras with a translucent mirror Sony SLT.

Cropped CZK Sony APS-C:

  1. Sony a100
  2. Sony a200
  3. Sony a230
  4. Sony a290
  5. Sony a300
  6. Sony a330
  7. Sony a350
  8. Sony a380
  9. Sony a390
  10. Sony a450
  11. Sony a500
  12. Sony a550
  13. Sony a560
  14. Sony a580
  15. Sony a700

Sony Full Frame CZK:

  1. Sony a850
  2. Sony a900

The last classic digital SLR camera from Sony was introduced back in 2010 (models Sony a580 / Sony a560). But overall, Sony's 'mirror' system continues to exist, albeit with a translucent mirror. SLT cameras inherit the Sony A (Konica Minolta A) mount and the entire optics park developed for it. True, the current lineup of Sony SLT cameras is rather scarce, and some of them have not been updated for a long time.

Sony (SLT!)

Sony's translucent mirror cameras stopped being updated in 2016 and are also an extinct evolutionary branch.

Crop Sony SLT APS-C CZK:

  1. Sony a33
  2. Sony a35
  3. Sony a37
  4. Sony a55
  5. Sony a57
  6. Sony a58
  7. Sony a65
  8. Sony a68
  9. Sony a77
  10. Sony a77II

Full-frame Sony SLT models:

  1. Sony a99
  2. Sony a99II

All Sony DT Lenses

  1. Sony 35 / 1.8 SAM
  2. Sony 50 / 1.8 SAM
  3. Sony 11-18 / 4.5-5.6, based Konica Minolta 11-18 / 4.5-5.6the circuit is similar Tamron / Promaster 11-18 / 4.5-5.6 model A13
  4. Sony 16-50 / 2.8 SSM
  5. Sony 16-80 / 3.5-4.5 Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T * ZA
  6. Sony 16-105 / 3.5-5.6
  7. Sony 18-55 / 3.5-5.6 SAM
  8. Sony 18-55 / 3.5-5.6 SAM II
  9. Sony 18-70 / 3.5-5.6, based Konica Minolta 18-70 / 3.5-5.6
  10. Sony 18-135 / 3.5-5.6 SAM
  11. Sony 18-200 / 3.5-6.3, based on Konica Minolta 18-200 / 3.5-6.3, the circuit is the same Tamron / Promaster 18-200 / 3.5-6.3 model A14
  12. Sony 18-250 / 3.5-6.3the circuit is similar Tamron 18-250 / 3.5-6.3 model A18, Pentax / Samsung 18-250 / 3.5-6.3
  13. Sony 55-200 / 4-5.6, the scheme is similar Tamron / Quantaray 55-200 / 4-5.6 model A15
  14. Sony 55-200 / 4-5.6 SAMthe circuit is similar Tamron / Quantaray 55-200 / 4-5.6 model A15
  15. Sony 55-300 / 4.5-5.6 SAM

There are a lot of Sony / Minolta A mount full frame lenses. I will highlight only interesting Zeiss Alpha (ZA):

  1. Carl Zeiss Distagon 2/24 ZA T * SSM (Sony SAL24F20Z) [2010]
  2. Carl Zeiss planar 1.4 /50 ZA T * SSM (Sony SAL50F14Z)
  3. Carl Zeiss planar 1.4 /85 ZA T * (Sony SAL85F14Z) [2006]
  4. Carl Zeiss Sonnar 1.8 /135 ZA T * (SAL135F18Z) [2006]
  5. Carl Zeiss Vario-sonnar 2.8 /16 – 35 ZA T * SSM (Sony SAL1635Z) [2008]
  6. Zeiss Vario-sonnar 2.8 /16 – 35 ZA SSM II T * (Sony SAL1635Z2) [2015]
  7. Carl Zeiss Vario-sonnar 2.8 /24 – 70 ZA T * SSM (Sony SAL2470Z) [2008]
  8. Zeiss Vario-sonnar 2.8 /24 – 70 ZA SSM II T * (Sony SAL2470Z2) [2015]

Leica / Olympus / Panasonic 4/3

Do not confuse the 4/3 mirror system with the Micro 4/3 mirrorless system!

Four Thirds includes several manufacturers that have cameras with the same mount. Crop factor for these cameras is Kf = 2.0X.

CZK Leica:

  1. Leica Digilux 3 (similar to Panasonic Lumix DMC-L1)

CZK Olympus:

  1. Olympus E-1
  2. Olympus E-3
  3. Olympus E-5
  4. Olympus E-30
  5. Olympus E-300
  6. Olympus E-330
  7. Olympus E-400
  8. Olympus E-410
  9. Olympus E-420
  10. Olympus E-450
  11. Olympus E-500
  12. Olympus E-510
  13. Olympus E-520
  14. Olympus E-600
  15. Olympus E-620

CZK Panasonic:

  1. Panasonic Lumix DMC-L1, February 2006, one of the first CZK with Live View
  2. Panasonic Lumix DMC-L10August 2007

There were about 30 autofocus lenses for the system from Olympus and Panasonic / Lecia, I will separately indicate here only Panasonic / LEICA lenses for 4/3:

  1. LEICA D SUMMILUX 1: 1.4 / 25 ASPH.
  2. LEICA D VARIO-ELMARIT 1: 2.8-3.5 / 14-50 ASPH. MEGA OIS
  3. LEICA D VARIO-ELMAR 1: 3.8-5.6 / 14-50 ASPH. MEGA OIS
  4. LEICA D VARIO-ELMAR 1: 3.5-5.6 / 14-150 ASPH. MEGA OIS

The 4/3 system has completely ceased to exist.

Subsequently, Panasonic and Olympus switched to the mirrorless Micro 4/3 system.

Leica switched to the Leica TL mirrorless cameras and later to the SL.

Results

Many well-known digital SLR systems completely (Fujifilm, Samsung, Kodak, Konica Minolta, Panasonic / Olympus / Leica 4/3) or partially (Sigma, Sony) ceased to exist. Fujifilm, Samsung, Panasonic / Olympus, Sigma, Sony, and even Leica and Zeiss switched to the mirrorless direction.

Looking at history of the above brands, it is safe to say that the mirror titans of Canon, Nikon and Sony SLT are waiting for a complete transition to the mirrorless paradigm. Even worse is the situation with Pentax, which may not survive the massive transition to mirrorless.

Extension here.

Materials on the topic

  1. Full frame mirrorless systems... Discussion, choice, recommendations.
  2. Cropped mirrorless systems... Discussion, choice, recommendations.
  3. Cropped mirrorless systems that have stopped or are no longer developing
  4. Digital SLR systems that have stopped or are no longer developing
  5. JVI or EVI (an important article that answers the question 'DSLR or mirrorless')
  6. About mirrorless batteries
  7. Simple and clear medium format
  8. High-speed solutions from Chinese brands
  9. All fastest autofocus zoom lenses
  10. All fastest AF prime lenses
  11. Mirrored full frame on mirrorless medium format
  12. Autofocus Speed ​​Boosters
  13. One lens to rule the world
  14. The impact of smartphones on the photography market
  15. What's next (smartphone supremacy)?
  16. All announcements and novelties of lenses and cameras

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Material prepared Arkady Shapoval... Look for me on Youtube | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | Telegram.

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Comments: 194, on the topic: Fallen digital mirror systems

  • Igor

    I will use DSLRs as their resource allows.
    Mirrorless mirrors, in my opinion, do not give any increase in the final quality of the photo.
    The manufacturer gets rid of the mirror (supposedly simplifying the system), but complicates it with an electronic viewfinder, proclaiming the compactness (“convenience”) of the carcass, and then offers to buy an overhead handle for a comfortable grip ...
    Marketing??)

    • Arkady Shapoval

      History has clearly shown that not all marketing.

      • Michael

        And what is NOT marketing? Well, except for the extended viewfinder functionality.

        • Stas

          The working segment is not marketing and, as a result, higher quality and less cumbersome high-aperture optics. less popping and replacement parts. Of course, it would be better to have a full-fledged electronic shutter, in order to abandon the "Mechanics" in this unit altogether, but so far these are dreams.

          • Alexander

            “Less clapping” is debatable. Yes, there is no mirror, however, the shutter makes 2 times more body movements (if the front electronic shutter is not turned on, as in Sony-SLT), respectively, it is also killed 2 times faster /

            • Eugene

              The shutter makes exactly as many body movements as on the DSLR. Take a closer look. Only on the DSLR the shutter still plows when you turn the liveview on and off. So the shutter kills faster on the mirror.

              • Alexander

                Mirrorless gestures are much more:
                1. The VS is folded at the top and stands on the sear, the NS is folded at the bottom, that is, lowered, the matrix works to take a real-time image to transfer it to the screen or electronic viewfinder. You are being induced.

                2. The descent is pressed on the camera, the VS descends, moves down, closing the shutter - the charges on the matrix are reset to zero to reset the noise.

                3. Motor cocking the shutter - both curtains move up.

                4. NSh goes down, the shutter opens, the shutter speed is counted.

                5. After the shutter speed expires, the HS descends, the shutter closes.

                6. The camera processes the data from the matrix, the motor turns on and cockes both curtains.

                7. NSh is released, the shutter opens for a new cycle of sighting on the display or EVI.

              • Borman

                According to the "specialized" micro4 / 3 site))) the shutter algorithm looks like this:
                Mirrorless cameras:

                1. Initial state - upper curtain at the top, lower at the bottom. Works live.
                2. The lower curtain rises up - zeroing the matrix.
                3. The lower curtain moves down - the beginning of the exposure.
                4. Upper curtain moves down - end of exposure, data reading.
                5. The upper curtain rises up - return to its original state.

                SLR cameras:

                1. Initial state - the upper curtain is at the top, the lower one is also at the top.
                2. The lower curtain moves down - the beginning of the exposure.
                3. Upper curtain moves down - end of exposure, data reading.
                4. Upper and lower curtains go up - return to its original state.

          • Michael

            A small working distance does not affect the bulkiness of aperture optics in any way. It is only possible to theoretically reduce the size of wide-angle lenses (abandoning retro-focus schemes), but this is still a dream, like a global shutter

          • Vitaly N

            A short working distance is also vignetting and increased distortion in the corners. Most lens circuits will remain with a large RO, the lens mount will only be shifted to the matrix.

          • Victor

            If we put “mechanics” on one side of the scales, and “electronics” on the second, then the second “bends” much earlier than the first. Except, of course, plastic fillings, which are stuffed into cameras wherever possible. Shake out your wallets, gentlemen!

            • Peter Sh.

              Everyone has forgotten what surprises the ROHS standard prepares for us with solder. There, sound engineers have long felt this miracle of the program on their ears.

            • Stas

              Again, nonsense about Marketers and profit from Poor buyers))) mechanics and electronics ... the stone hammer is our all)

          • kotofei

            It seems to me that shortening the flange distance from 40+ to 18 mm well ... reduced the length of the lens by 22 mm, without particularly affecting its mass. But another unpleasant problem got out - in the center the rays fall on the matrix perpendicularly, and along the edges - at a very acute angle. Surely the manufacturers somehow treat this (microlenses with a variable profile ??), but this is a crutch on a crutch.

    • Ivmulder

      I had a Nikon D5100 CZK with additional pluses in the form of a flash and a couple of fixes. When it was possible to travel a lot for work, experience showed that it was inconvenient to take a central defense complex with you on a business trip because of its size. In the end, I settled on the Fujifilm X-T10 and the Fujinon 18-55 2.8-4 zoom. This bundle is more compact than the Nikon D5100 + Nikkor 35 1.8. Plus I like the camera on preset jpeg more than the camera on Nikon, with Nikon I always did the post-processing of the moat in the lightroom, here 5% of the shots get into the post-processing. Plus, the Fuji sensor allows you to shoot in darker conditions than Nikon with the same loss in image quality.

      I do not agitate anyone and do not want to holivarit. This is just my personal experience and my IMHO.

      • Arkady Shapoval

        Thanks. Another important role is played by the fact that the X-T10 is 5 years newer :)

      • Ruslan Keba

        I support on 100%.
        I have the same story, only there was not Nikon, but a mirror Sony, and then Kenon.

      • Michael

        All this is interesting, but who is stopping on any system, including Nikon, from making / downloading any presets for the camera jpg to your taste? Change the system because of presets so-so decision.

      • zengarden

        I had Nikon D60, D70, D7000 DSLRs; and now also Fujifilm X-T10. It is enough for my tasks. Whoever swears at the curve of the X-Trans demosaic - put your hands in the right place.

        • Pokemon

          + 1
          I will support

    • VICTOR

      The reliability of any system cannot be higher than its weakest link. In our case, this is electronics. Recently, there were quite obsessive arguments about the size, weight, compactness of the UPC, but ... the first lenses released by the company (Sony, fifty dollars under a kilogram and others) forced this argument to be hidden in the basements ... colleagues will supplement the rest.

  • Pokemon

    “A lot of lenses have been released for Sigma SA, and there’s nothing to list.”
    Yeah. Only in the sale of them during the day with fire with a lantern you will not find. Lenses for this mount are very rare. Less popular was the 17-50 / 2.8 whale-walker to SD-1.

    • Arkady Shapoval

      A large number of diverse, here we are not talking about the number of copies sold

      • Pokemon

        Arkady, there were much fewer of them than under Canon / Nikon mounts. There were especially few fixes. In the future, this situation was fixed by fixes of the Art line. But one thing they say about the release, and another to find at least on ebay.

        • Arkady Shapoval

          Nikon / Canon is a completely different story

      • York

        Yes, if only.
        This govnokontora initially scored on her native bayonet, many of the glasses did not release at all on her native tail, only on K, N and Sonya.

        Many were declared, but even in UWB and Japan they were considered a rarity, and they really didn’t reach us.

        When people began to cut sigma under the canon, it didn’t look like freak shows of masturbates, but it was absolutely logical, immediately a huge park of a wide variety of optics appeared.

        • Pokemon

          This, as you put it, office, IMHO has become a hostage to patents.
          Well, yes, the easiest way is to give a lot of money to Canon / Nikon and cut cameras ... for his mount.
          Something tells me that they ask dearly for it. Because Fuji and Kodak did not release cameras on other people's bayonets for long.

  • Anatoly

    I have a bitter experience with the SONY NEX-6 BZK, I bought it in 2013, complete with Sony E 3.5-5.6 / PZ 16-50.
    - a year later, charging stopped working, bought another, not native;
    - after a while the “auto” mode stopped working normally, for some reason panoramic shooting starts immediately, so you can only use other modes;
    - then the hot shoe was unscrewed, began to dangle, the screws for fastening it fell inside, disassembled, screwed into place. Probably from the fact that I used an external flash.
    - the native kit lens Sony E 3.5-5.6 / PZ 16-50 once went out and did not come back again. After the repair, it became poorly focused, it is impossible to use.
    - periodically does not see the attached Sony E 55-210 mm lens, it is necessary to remove and install it again, wipe the contacts.
    - now the native battery has "recovered", it does not fit into the socket.
    And the good old Nikon D200 still works flawlessly.

    • Arkady Shapoval

      I can tell sad stories about any cameras, including the d200, whose rubber bands climb, which can swallow 10 batteries per day, and also the repairmen do not like it because of the monstrous difficulty in disassembling / assembling, this is just an example. I am leading this to the fact that judging a system by one camera is extremely difficult.

  • Paul

    In VK "f" and "and" in the word "digital mirrors" are rearranged

  • Anatoly

    Sony A700 CE 1.5 and not a new frame. I have a bull

    • Arkady Shapoval

      fixed

  • Imparopulo

    In fact, it’s difficult to vouch for the future, but to date, in terms of cameras, mirrorless cameras are no good. Sony A6000 gives just disgusting colors out of the box.

    • Arkady Shapoval

      Again, you took one Sony A6000 and judge the entire mirrorless segment by them. Mirrorless is not only Sony, it is not only crop and it is not only color.

  • Alexey

    Of all the listed systems, the most interesting products were manufactured (and manufactured) by Sigma.
    I would like to wish them strength and means to bring their product to mind, but it seems that their cameras will remain in the “segment for experiments”.

  • Pavel Gorbunov

    "Fallen digital SLR systems ..."
    And if you recall how many film mirror systems have died! .. :)

    "And the survivability of the Sigma SA mount is also due to the fact that the Sigma sd Quattro and Sigma sd Quattro H mirrorless cameras also use the Sigma SA 'mirror" mount ...
    ... which changes to the Canon EF mount once or twice ... :)
    Sigma isn't going anywhere. Foveon will be released in full frame - and will be more alive than any other living person with an L mount.

    Pentax, it smells my heart, is preparing a surprise: two mirrorless cameras based on K-1 / K-1 Mark II (full frame) and KR (crop). The bayonet stays the same: why reinvent the wheel?

    In general, a little time will pass - about 10 years - and only full-frame professional Canon and Nikon will remain in nature from DSLRs, which will be pressed on their heels by their “smarter” mirrorless colleagues ...

    • Vitaly N

      “In general, a little time will pass - about 10 years - and only full-frame professional Canon and Nikon will remain in nature from DSLRs, which will be pressed on their heels by their“ smarter ”mirrorless colleagues ...”
      Here is the same thing I read somewhere in the year 2012 and it seems even here ... Something has not changed much the situation. Crops were produced as well as produced. But only a few walk from the BZK, and then more often you see the mikra. The real one who died out is the soap dish.

      • Alexey Ovoshchnikov

        Yes, that’s all clear. Amateur DSLRs have become more compact and the very advantage of mirrorless cameras is not so obvious. Yes, you can put any old lens through an adapter on the mirrorless mirror. But this is not enough for anyone if we are talking not only about photo enthusiasts. Kaput soapboxes for a long time, in their place came B.O. mirrorless mirrors of the first generations. They are already like the same soap dishes for the price. Mobile phones are also something even budget-friendly.

  • York

    Regarding the maxim of “mirror titans Canon, Nikon and Sony SLT is waiting for a complete transition to a mirrorless paradigm”: the further, the stronger the feeling that more and more new generations of knowledge base will come out and go into oblivion under the curious gaze of all these OBBTs with OBBT, with flapping mirrors, complex mechanics and something else they love to blame.

    And the feeling is growing that the day is not far off when a thread Olympus will announce the technique first vintage, and then obsolete.
    Because mechanics is mechanics, the shutter will pass a hundred tyk or five hundred, no one knows, but the manufacturer is trying to make it pass. And the software can not be updated, but you can also flash the lifespan, because it's not fucking.
    Buy a new one, the manufacturer also wants money.

    We can say that the situation with mobile phones will repeat to some extent.
    I have three dead apples, two gnusmas and one xiaomi, plus I threw out a couple more, plus a couple of apples are about to become obsolete ...
    And Nokia 3720 is always with me, I don’t remember which year I bought it. And a couple more in the table, just in case.

  • Ravshan

    Moved from d750 to Z6 as if moved from Lada to Tesla. The common thing between the cameras is only the resolution of the matrix.

    • Denis

      In the sense of constantly charging?

      • Basil

        Well, why immediately charge it? a man carries a small bucket of batteries with him and that's it

      • zengarden

        Denis, well said 👍

    • Oleg

      What are you, Ravshan ... Z7 should have been taken, it is more fashionable!

  • Eugen

    It seems to me that SLR cameras will not disappear completely (as they did not disappear, for example, rangefinders). But soon they will be driven into a narrow niche from which it will no longer be possible to get out.

    • Victor

      Eugene, this, as you put it, "narrow niche", from a height may well turn out to be quite a wide avenue. Definitely!

      • VICTOR

        Victor, I think so too!

  • Alex stallinn

    When choosing a system, you need to think not only about the camera! But about the optics that this system can offer you. Small mirrorless, large and expensive optics! Cheap DSLR, small and cheap optics. What is better to have one large camera, and with 10 small lenses With AF . Or a small camera or a pair of hefty, expensive lenses? The question is very controversial ... And the battery consumption, my camera makes 4000.5000 from one charge, and the mirrorless? I remembered Yeralash, when the guy had a small clock talking with the weather forecast, and 2 suitcases with batteries For me, this is ordinary marketing .. Why create a new system with new optics that does not support old solutions (lenses, etc.). The system should evolve, not destroy itself ... But this obviously does not bring money, so save up on expensive optics, or use adapters that do not give full control of the old optics. A bad photographer will not get better with a more expensive system, he will shoot just as bad, but more comfortable and expensive)))

    • Eugene

      We will wait until wealthy amateur photographers hurrying to buy new ones buy BZK and happily buy normal DSLRs on the secondary market at a reasonable price!

      • Victor

        Eugene, I like wise people! Nice to meet a sane person!

      • VICTOR

        Eugene, I have been following this rule for a long time in my practice!

  • Adon

    OPC have a wider selection of optics, thanks to the short working distance and the presence of adapters for any system.

    • Alexstalinn

      A wider selection of manual optics, and without an automatic iris. For shooting video, this is convenient. But the camera is from the word Photo? ☺ Where will the whole fleet of autofocus screwdriver Nikons go? to the current as to the moon))) And to buy a system so that you can install some kind of lens with a short segment and turn it with the handles, this is not for an amateur and for videographers ...

      • Adon

        Well, it’s immediately obvious that a person is not in the know, but condemns.
        Under the same sony E there are adapters for almost any system with preserving autofocus. And even more than that, there are adapters with the addition of autofocus, if it was not (manual lens).

        • Michael

          This is not native and doesn’t understand how

        • Alexstalinn

          The adapter for autofocus does not give you an automatic aperture, do not be mistaken. And this is a huge minus)))

          • Adon

            For example, under Sonya there is LA-EA4.
            There autofocus, and screwdriver, and the aperture is controlled, and even phase points are poured in the pendants.

        • Alexey Ovoshchnikov

          /// And even more than that, there are adapters with the addition of autofocus if it was not (manual lens) ./// HOW?

          • Roman

            It was like that with Nikon. Tele-converter with autofocus. The lens was probably set to hyperfocal, and the converter lenses ran slowly and allowed non-autofocus lenses to focus. There was a loss in aperture ratio and an increase in focal length, but they got pretty decent autofocus for those times.

            https://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/nikkoresources/teleconverter/tc16a/index.htm - here in more detail

          • Roman

            Due to the difference in the working segments, it is possible to reduce the number of lenses and provide only focusing without increasing and a special loss of aperture.

          • Adon

            For example:
            https://youtu.be/3binM22uUpg

            • Alexey de Paris

              Thank you, this is an interesting thing. I really wanted to try autofocus with manual optics.

    • Victor

      ... This is especially noticeable in comparison with the Nikon system ... How many UPCs are there nowadays?

    • VICTOR

      Yes, ADON, especially in the SUPERTELE range!

  • Adon

    Sony SLT is more likely than a SLR.

  • Eugene

    Not everything is so tragic, since there are still quite a few mastodons, who shoot on film SLRs. Why panic over the dying of digital SLRs.

  • koba

    that's how much junk is produced in the world, and everything is very expensive, instead of organizing the production of cameras in large quantities and reducing their cost, although their cost is already no more than 1/4 of the retail cost, including all expenses ...

    • Igor

      Release in droves and bring down the market? But who will do this at a loss?
      Everything is counted there :))

      • Michael

        Used to do to gain market share

  • Aries

    SLR cameras give a true image, reduced by FATT GLASS. b / SLR on a digital display on which the scene is almost always mistakenly evaluated ……………… you choose.

    • Michael

      Yeah, and the frame is obtained as on the same digital display

      • Aries

        this is how the matrix is ​​configured

    • Arkady Shapoval

      Not true, the blur zone there is displayed quite differently from what it will be in the picture, the same applies to some of the highlights

  • Peter Sh.

    I can’t wait until the UPC will defeat everyone.
    In the meantime, they will not cope with their old diseases, they will stagnate in the amateur market.
    Here are a few problems with the UPC on the example of Sonya. And there is more to come.
    I hope everyone owns a Google translator:
    #one. Rack Zoom During Burst: When shooting moving subjects on high frame burst, zooming in causes dropped focus.

    # 2 Moiré and Rolling Shutter: Two issues that cause issues when shooting video.

    # 3 Overheating Problems: Michael has overheated every Sony camera he has used.

    #four. Posterization in Compressed RAW Files. Green compression blocks in between white and black pixels.

    #five. Star Eating: Noise reduction reduces the number of stars that are captured in astrophotography.

    # 6 Electronic Shutter Banding: Banding shows up under certain lighting when using the electronic shutter.

    # 7 12-bit RAW During High Burst: Photos go from 14-bit to 12-bit RAW when shooting at high frame rates.

    #eight. Buffer Lag: The time it takes for photos to be written to the memory card.

    # 8b. No XQD: Michael doesn't understand why Sony hasn't adopted the new fast card format that it pioneered.

    #nine. Confusing Menus: The menu systems are very easy to get lost in.

    # 9b. Touchscreen Not Fully Functional: We've gotten some touchscreen ability, but we still don't menu touchscreen options.

    #ten. Front Heavy: Big lenses make the small cameras very front heavy.

    #eleven. Weather Sealing: There are some complaints about the weather sealing of Sony cameras.

    #12. Camera Body Finish. Michael's a7R II had corner paint worn off just from rubbing against his camera bag.

    #13. Limited Native Mount Telephoto Lenses: There's a very limited selection of telephoto lenses.

    #fourteen. Sensor Filter Stack Issues: Issues that may make it harder to clean the sensors.

    • Denis

      what they cannot win is marketing too

      • Denis

        (in the sense of not really trying, it seems)

    • Michael

      The problems of the menu, RAVs and recording speeds are still not problems of the UPC, but of Aunt Sonya. The rest is yes, sores

    • Arkady Shapoval

      And you, yes, by the example of one thing, trying to build an opinion about the BZK as a phenomenon as a whole. Here more than half are not problems of the UPC.

      • Peter Sh.

        But what about the other half?)
        Once again, this is an example specifically with Sony's UPC. They have more experience than all the others combined.

  • Pashqwert

    In the spring of 2020, Canon, and then Nikon, will roll out flagship pro-carcasses without a mirror, and the question of the final paradigm change will take months. The first digital pro-carcass on all fronts of “photo quality” merged with the film predecessor. Therefore, consumers will not be confused by something about focusing in low light. And since no office is able to embrace the entire production cycle, then none of the flagships will share the flow of investment in a well-defined mainstream for the sake of maintaining a dead-end branch of technologies associated with the presence of a mirror, so as not to lag behind competitors in this stream.

    • Alexander

      “In the spring of 2020, Canon, and then Nikon, will roll out flagship pro-carcasses without a mirror” - have there been announcements yet? I only heard about updating the mirrored flagships.

      • Pashqwert

        Wangyu, but it's cloudy today, so "it's not certain."

    • Peter Sh.

      President Nikon constantly says in an interview that there are photographs that can only be taken with a DSLR. Therefore, they do not have plans for a complete transition to the BZK.

      • Alexander

        “Therefore, they do not have plans to fully switch to the UPC” - BMW said the same about turbo engines 15 years ago.

      • Michael

        At one time they also poured about crop

      • Peter Sh.

        And then BMW or crop?
        So, literally, what's the connection with the statement above?

        • Michael

          With the fact that President Nikon says one thing and thinks another. And what is known in the plans only to the management of the company and is never advertised.
          About crop here very much. At one time, Nikon loudly declared that they would make the system on crop and the development of FF was not included in their plans, and at that time the development of D3 was in full swing.

          • Peter Sh.

            Yes, I recall something like that.
            But it doesn’t matter. Until the UPC learns to do the same thing, but better, the SLR will not go anywhere. It is a fact.
            Although, of course, I want something fundamentally new and advanced.

      • Pashqwert

        That is why I wrote “Canon, and then Nikon”, the history of the rake (ignoring the masses) of the latter continues.

  • Hius

    62 comments, and the result is 1: 1 in the match “Mirrors” against “Mirrorless”. At other photo forums, they immediately warn: “Just don't ask which is better: Nikon or Kenon”. So what to take - CZK or BZK?

  • Alexander

    Guys, you are all so naive in your reasoning about cameras, systems and functions in these cameras ... All this is done by manufacturers in order to constantly have income from sales ... The capitalists have no other goal ... Sales of bezekralok will start to fall, they will come up with some other system for you and they will call it differently, just what people would buy ... And you will continue to talk about the advantages and disadvantages of the focusing system, which will have the function of recognizing the face of a fly, to determine its breed ... All this is ridiculous ... For a long time already the quality of images from cameras has reached normal level and for an ordinary layman who wants to have a good camera, but he does not need technical life, such a camera already exists ... What is the difference between amateur shots of an ordinary person who takes his family on the D7000 from the shots of the same amateur who bought himself a Z7 and shoots the same flowers and the same sweetheart - a daughter ...? Yes, nothing ... And there are most of them ... My friend has a Samsung GX10 DSLR and he is satisfied with it and says that he sees no reason to spend money on a new one, because he will not get anything new, except for a decrease in money in his wallet ... And the fact that there is a pro they face each other in front of the cool D5 and DX1, so there's no use for this ... If only because their pictures will still be posted on Internet pages where the quality of an ordinary phone is enough ... And most importantly, what they shoot with their cool cameras is those pros fuck no one needs them and no one looks at those photos of them anyway ... So it turns out that a bunch of professional photographers who shoot a football match or some cool fashion show are nothing more than a bunch of Nutcrackers, the results of which are only sound shutters on the video of this match and nothing else ... What is all this technodrostvo for ...? To make a profit, the tycoons who produce all this photographic equipment ... This is their only goal, so there is still a lot of noodles in store for you ... But in fact, soon there will be few people who shoot with cameras, everyone will click their phones, not thinking about anything else ... For home shooting is the most ...
    Apple made the last smartphone with three lenses ... I watched - excellent amateur-level shots ... It is expensive, I agree ... But if you buy it as a good camera, then it will come with additional buns in the form of a phone and the Internet ... And you will continue to argue about buns in new cameras ... And in fact, mirrorless - complete crap ... And the main thing in them is crap - a stupid LCD screen in the viewfinder and slow autofocus ... Yes, autofocus is slow, whoever sings here ... And it is unlikely to be as fast as phase will be ... A SLR camera will always be a real camera, just like a turntable will be the standard of sound ... And everything else is a negative side effect of the development of photography progress ...

    • Roman

      A bast shoe will be the standard shoe. And moonshine is the standard of booze.

      • Aleks

        And also the steam locomotive will be the best vehicle, the wooden hut the best living quarters, etc., etc.) Regression forever

        • Alexander

          And now wooden houses are the best for living ... Only they cost so much that only moneybags can have this ...

      • death_upset

        Have you tried listening to FLAC? lossless compression. there the bitrate is an order of magnitude higher than in MP3. well, or something like AudioCD. as for me, it doesn’t sound much worse than records, on some records it’s even better. no distortion, no dust, and now the records are recorded with the same numbers, it makes sense to buy vinyl, if you can immediately listen to the source, what was written on it?

        Well, regarding the bzk, I think the future belongs to them, they will be finished and it will be a very cool tool for work. I used to be skeptical about such a thing too. a friend bought a fuji bzk (X-T30), I was blown away by how cool and convenient it is - all the functionality of my Nikon D80, even more, inside a small body, and the ability to install almost any optics through adapters without losing focus to infinity , this is what the Nikon lacked with its huge working section. I would advise you not to speak out so harshly against it and try to just take pictures of this curiosity. after all, digital photography did not immediately hit everyone at one time. of course, the revolution of numbers is incommensurable with the revolution of the bzk, but it's still something

        • Alexander

          So I just listen to vinyl or Flac ... Vinyl is better ... Flac from where ..? From vinyl ... The circle is closed ...

          • Pashqwert

            Where does the vinyl come from, if recording studios are 20 years old as completely computerized :) And let the classic “analog” type of mixers and other things, for the sake of operators' habit, do not mislead you. About vinyl only, after 10-20 plays the vinyl available here = flac turns to vinyl = mp3. In photography, music, and other subjective “creativity”, it’s all about personal preference. Moreover, the personalities I know with education and perfect pitch, who are professionally engaged in final mastering, do not “worry” about being above 12 kHz due to two physiological reasons (few people after 25 years hear sounds above 14-15 kHz and they are not young either already) and informational (between 70Hz-500Hz three octaves and an error in completeness cuts the ear, from 12kHz-25kHz less than an octave, and even less differs), overloading the spectrum with garbage and reflected harmonics of the 2nd and 3rd order. Likewise, with professional artists, photographers, they would use something better, but they use what they are used to and can afford, and do not notice in their work those moments that cause wars on the forums.
            Therefore, DSLRs or mirrorless cameras are not really our choice. I agree that the market votes with the ruble and the sales statistics display this. But! If UPC is cheaper, and even more people can afford a phone, then is the “voice” a conscious choice of understanding people or forced “I would like to have it, but I will buy something cheaper”. A mirrorless camera is more technologically advanced in production, so it is more likely the manufacturer's choice to get a little more profit, slightly lowering the price, but significantly reducing costs. And most buyers choose what is cheaper.

            • zengarden

              So yes, now music is originally written in digital form (very rarely in analogue on tape, but even there it is actually digital). All processing, remastering is in digital. But studio equipment is not consumer goods for audiophiles (in our opinion, sound lovers), it is professional and very expensive equipment.
              But the film is almost an "analog" image, because the grains of different sizes are located chaotically. Although the same Fuji made the Akros film preset, which is almost identical (visually) to the old b / w film.

            • Roman K

              12 to 25 kHz more than an octave)

            • Vitaly N

              There most likely 12-20 kHz, 25 no one hears.

        • Alexander

          The vinyl that is recorded from the number, which is now being recorded from the number, which in turn was digitized from the original, from which the vinyl was previously recorded ... So here, theoretically, we can say that the losses are minimal ... Although, who interferes with listening to the first press, which were made in that Golden time ...? Nobody ... They are in bulk now and in good condition ... And then the old matrices have not disappeared, they are also being used now ...

        • Alexander

          “” ”I would advise you not to speak out so harshly and try to just shoot on this curiosity” ”” - I’m not saying that the final product (the image itself) is of poor quality ... Good, but the nuances are different ... Autofocus, LCD a screen instead of a real picture in the viewfinder ... I think, as an addition to a DSLR camera for some cases, it will be very much in demand ... But in no way, as an independent system, this will not work ... I'm not talking about a pro, even for me, an amateur, the UPC will fit only as a second camera after a DSLR, and for the most part either for experiments, or take it with you on vacation, so that the dimensions are smaller ... Although, I like my D7000 and D7100 and I don't see anything superfluous in their dimensions ... But the fact itself the presence of an LCD screen instead of a viewfinder, which quickly drops the battery, and looking at such a screen is a little bit of pleasure, it's like sniffing flowers in a gas mask, and the slow autofocus itself, which is unlikely to be as fast as a phase automatic m pushes the UPC into the background ... Either for amateurs, and then solely because of the smaller size, or for the pros for the role of the second camera, and also exclusively because of the smaller size ... Film cameras used to be both SLR and rangefinder ... So what ..? And always and still the rangefinder is a second-plan camera ... And the first-shot DSLR ... So are these UPCs now ... By analogy, the same thing ... You can't even get enough batteries for it ...

      • Photographer

        1. “Sounds” is not the medium, music “sounds”.
        2. In perception “cuts” - “does not cut”, it is not the format that is primary, but the mastering of sound (see on the topic “Loudness War”)

        • Alexander

          “Cuts” is figurative ... You can hear the compression of the music ... This does not go into your ears ... If you are drunk, then who hears this compression ...? There, no one hears music either - everyone just hears noise ...

      • Michael

        And moonshine is the best booze

        • Alexander

          And what is not ...? It is better to drink shop shit, in which hucksters and oligarchs are mixed, who knows what, for "your buzz" and especially for getting used to ... And also so that you would get to the hospital as soon as possible, where then three skins will rip off you and the money will go to those to the same freaks who control the production of this drink ...

          • Michael

            Duc, I'm not ironic

      • Vladislav

        ahahaha, I agree, this is some kind of too caricature character :)

    • Basil

      I agree that for the amateur photographer, this is a photojacking. That is enough for 6k / s and 14-16 (20) Mp. and even an 18-55mm lens. The main thing is to improve the skill of the photographer !!! But the BZK is still interesting. I am for the fact that it would be nice to have in the arsenal and UPC. After all, a camera is just a tool.

  • Sergey

    The conversation began with marketing ... So, my opinion. For any manufacturer, the main movement is getting constant profit. And with the advent of new systems and products, it turns out. What's the use that everyone has already accumulated "DSLRs" and all kinds of "trash" for them? It was necessary to come up with something new and stimulate sales (income). So mirrorless cameras appeared.

  • Sergey

    It is possible for another hundred years to put a stamp on the spot and polish the “film” or “mirror”. But this will not give good profits like the introduction of a new product and purchases from scratch.

  • Vitaly N

    Matrices are subject to wear and tear and do not last forever. Master disks - how many offices are left from those times? You can count on the fingers of one hand, probably, almost all went bankrupt. And those that have appeared now - one can only hope that they are not stamping at least from CD, and not from mp3. In general, vinyl is a disease, such as love for CCD matrices or film. Everyone (well, or almost everyone) understands that infa from them with distortions and lies, but they use it. Although a direct-drive turntable with electronic damping of the tonearm is spinning ...

    • coroner

      Do you know what is best for the future? This is that it will surely and inevitably come, even if everyone chorus and very loudly begin to shred, which used to be better.
      Otherwise, they still would not have crawled out of the warm tube caves.

      • Alexander

        So it has already come a long time ago ... Thin TVs are ...? There are ... And they are comfortable and large ... There are digital cameras ...? There are ... And they have remained the same practically since 2009 and the quality of the final result, that is, the image, has not improved, because it was already normal and still the bulk of people are more than satisfied ... Refrigerators ...? Remained the same ... Washing machines ...? A long time ago such ... Bagless vacuum cleaners are the future ...? This is complete crap ... Everything is invented, there is nothing to invent, so the capitalists go to various tricks to fool the masses and force them to buy at least something ... And all these fairy tales in the form of films about the future (Back to the Future) will remain fairy tales ... Drones have appeared ..? They appeared ... And immediately they began to choke them with registrations and after that they fell into the category of luxury ... Whoever wanted to play enough and forgot ... Only a few of them use them and only those who really need them ... So what kind of future are you waiting for, I don't know, but people the future awaits in the form of an improvement in living standards (so that at least the last horseradish without salt to finish), the appearance of quality products in stores instead of chemical shit and normal clothes ... All markets are inundated with some kind of shit and from this shit it is extremely rare to find something more - less that you can wear ... Ah ... Smartphones ... So this is not the future - this is a scam for seizing money ... Crap in the form of a spatula with a penny cost price is vparivayutsya at the price of a car floor and then money is still lured in the form of SIM cards from the subscriber. payment and other subscriptions ... Wow, the future ... It's not even the kind of fantasy when they said that they would make money out of thin air, and even cooler - it's generally money out of nothing ... So enjoy this future ... It has already come and even the beginning move in the opposite direction ...

        • Cat pirate

          And about the theft of technology .. all of Japan has risen to theft, and now Korea is in its wake, South

          • Roman

            I got up. And did not fall.

        • coroner

          And how thin were the TVs? Interesting:)

        • Peter Sh.

          Yes, everything according to Fukuyama is to turn the wheel of History backwards. Under the guise of "sustainable development" to sell the population back to the archaic. The Vilicius Inquisitor turns adults into children who spend their precious lives on all sorts of fun and scolding the “scoop”.
          The future is forcibly turned into the past.

          • Alexander

            So I'm talking about the same thing ... Under the guise of progress, the future and all that, the systematic development of all so-called household appliances, including cameras, is simply being forced on ... All these ideas have long been on paper and they are for many centuries, just everything has its time ... The possibility of a very small element base appeared - small cameras, thin smartphones, thin TVs appeared ... But, in fact, nothing new has appeared ... This is just the evolution of the development of electronics and nothing else ... And all this has long been understood and drawn on paper ... inventions are simply the Evolution of progress in capitalism and nothing more ... What should have appeared in the world of capital ... Without this evolution and the constant possibility of pushing the same thing, only under a new name, capitalism will not exist ... They (the capitalists) you constantly need to come up with objects for vparivanie and lure money from people ... In fact - all their technical - this is a wheel that constantly pulls out of karmas But in fact, if you think about it - all this and the fuck nobody needs ... People need that they have what they need for human life ... And this is a TV and a washing machine and a refrigerator and a vacuum cleaner and a car ... And so that all this would be just normal and vital, and not turn into objects for the constant scamming of people ... I don't fucking need to buy cameras all the time ... I want to buy one - normal and use it always ... At the household level before, film cameras were bought for life, because the shutter would not work so much that the camera would break down ... Henri Cartier-Bresson shot all his life with one camera, bought in his youth Leica ... And he took photos, and did not jerk off to the camera, how she clicks there and how the light falls on the film ...

            • Arkady Shapoval

              You can buy a film camera and shoot with it for life. But you will not do this, because something better and easier has appeared. As for other reflections - a very one-sided opinion.

            • Vitaly N

              I agree only partially. There is progress and is very noticeable. But there is also the selling of all sorts of rubbish by marketers. Since the conversation about vinyl has already started - not music lovers remembered about it, but just the same marketers. And then they picked up various empty flaws that resell Chinese equipment under the guise of their own or steam heated wires. Almost all newly made turntables are plastic dummies, even from well-known companies. Equivalent Soviet 1-2-3 classes are lying on the OLH and Avito, which are useless to anyone. And 0 class in good condition can be bought for 100 green. Since people hawala, why not make and sell? In fact, the story is the same with mirrorless cameras - why did they suddenly become more expensive than similar DSLRs? It seems like on the contrary it is easier after all. This is purely marketing and an attempt to catch up with the decline in sales.

  • Picto giclee

    Truth, as always, lies somewhere in between.

    • Adon

      Not the case, here is the usual resistance to progress. This was the case, for example, in the transition from bow and arrow to firearms.

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