Spherical mirrorless crop in vacuum

Spherical mirrorless crop in a vacuum or a small note about the choice of mirrorless crop for work... This topic is a logical continuation of the materials'Mirrorless crop dropping into the abyss','Mirrorless fever'and'JVI or EVI'.

Spherical mirrorless crop in vacuum

Spherical mirrorless crop in a vacuum. Photo taken here.

Please note that this note is primarily aimed specifically at the choice of mirrorless crop for work, that is, for the professional activity of the photographer. For amateur photography, everything can be radically different.

In the system, it is very important for me to have native high-aperture zooms and fixes. By “relatives” I mean lenses specially designed for cameras of a particular system. Adapters for the use of mirror lenses and lenses from third parties are just an additional nice option. For example, for work as a photographer, I highly value fast universal lenses of the 24-70 / 2.8 class (in terms of EGF, of course). High-aperture zooms are an excellent indicator that the manufacturer is committed to providing the photographer with quality and convenient photographic equipment for his work. High-aperture fixes are also very important, by high-aperture in this case I mean lenses with F <= 1.4. The presence of certain lenses is an objective (pun) observation. I missed many other important factors, as they are infinitely long in their description. Amateur photographers may have completely different goals than professional work with the system.

In the tablet below, I tried to collect all the mirrorless crop that exist or existed and briefly characterize the system in terms of development in terms of the number of cameras / lenses and its activity:

all-aps-c-mirrorless-milc

Plate with all cropped mirrorless systems. View in detail. The number of cameras and / or lenses may be within a small error. Updated XLS table available here.

I have gained experience communicating with a large number of mirrorless technology, including one that has no reviews on Radozhiva. Many wrote to me about the need to give advice on mirrorless mirrors, mostly cropped. This plate is my advice..

Based on spherical theoretical absolutely subjective research and personal subjective experience, I would single out three serious mirrorless cropped systems for work. These are Fujifilm, Sony E and Canon EOS M. Of course, in each individual case, each user makes a choice based on his tasks and desires. Choosing a system is always a tricky business that has a million pros and cons.

I should note that for my work I would not at all consider (and do not consider) mirrorless crop.

But if I would like to start using mirrorless crop, I would stop my personal choice on Sigma sd Quattro H, with the hope that in the future a full frame will be released on FOVEON. The reasons are simple: a large sensor, a large fleet of optics from Sigma, high detail, interesting color. Deficiencies are also missing. Most likely I would have to use Sigma sd Quattro H paired with another camera.

Once again in capital letters. I CAN MISTAKE, THIS IS MY SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE. Also, many users will take into account the possibilities of video shooting, which in this article are almost completely ignored by me.

Comments under this note great for discussing choosing a mirrorless cropped system. The choice of a full-frame mirrorless system is discussed here. Request in comments do not go over to insults and personalities, also respect other users and other brands of photographic equipment. If you have something to write, write nicely or insult beautifully :). The moderator deletes / bans without explanation, the moderator is always right.

All Sony E mirrorless cameras with APS-C sensor

All Sony E lenses for APS-C

  1. 16mm f / 2.8
  2. 20mm f / 2.8 (black / silver)
  3. 24mm f / 1.8 ZEISS ZA
  4. 30mm f / 3.5 Macro
  5. 35mm f / 1.8 U.S.
  6. 50mm f / 1.8 U.S. (black / silver)
  7. 10-18mm f / 4 U.S.
  8. 16-50mm f / 3.5-5.6 PZ U.S. (black / silver)
  9. 16-55mm f / 2.8 G
  10. 16-70mm f / 4 U.S. ZEISS ZA
  11. 18-50mm f / 4-5.6
  12. 18-55mm f / 3.5-5.6 U.S. (black / silver, Japan / Thailand)
  13. 18-105mm f / 4 G PZ U.S.
  14. 18-110mm f / 4 G PZ U.S.
  15. 18-135mm f / 3.5-5.6 U.S.
  16. 18-200mm f / 3.5-6.3 U.S.
  17. 18-200mm f / 3.5-6.3 U.S. LE
  18. 18-200mm f / 3.5-6.3 PZ U.S.
  19. 55-210mm f / 4.5-6.3 U.S. (black / silver)
  20. 70-350mm f / 4.5–6.3 G U.S.

Third-party autofocus lenses for Sony E APS-C:

All OYMPUS M.ZUIKO DIGITAL Lenses for Micro 4/3

  1. 8mm 1: 1.8 FISHEYE PRO
  2. 9mm 1: 8 FISHEYE
  3. 12mm 1: 2 ED MSC
  4. 15mm 1: 8
  5. 17mm 1: 1.2 PRO
  6. 17mm 1: 1.8 MSC
  7. 17mm 1: 2.8
  8. 25mm 1: 1.2 PRO
  9. 25mm 1: 1.8 MSC
  10. 30mm 1: 3.5 ED MSC MACRO 1.25X
  11. 45mm 1: 1.2 PRO
  12. 45mm 1: 1.8 MSC
  13. 60mm 1: 2.8 ED MSC MACRO
  14. 75mm 1: 1.8 ED MSC
  15. 300mm 1: 4 IS PRO
  16. 7-14mm 1: 2.8 PRO
  17. 9-18mm 1:4-5.6 ED
  18. 12-40mm 1: 2.8 PRO
  19. 12-45mm 1: 4 PRO
  20. 12-50mm 1: 3.5-6.3 EZ ED MSC MACRO
  21. 12-100mm 1: 4 IS PRO
  22. 12-200mm 1:3.5-6.3 ED MSC
  23. 14-42mm 1:3.5-5.6 ED
  24. 14-42mm 1:3.5-5.6 MSC II
  25. 14-42mm 1:3.5-5.6 R MSC II
  26. 14-42mm 1: 3.5-5.6 EZ ED MSC
  27. 14-150mm 1:4-5.6 ED
  28. 14-150mm 1:4-5.6 ED MSC II
  29. 40-150mm 1: 2.8 PRO
  30. 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 ED MSC
  31. 40-150mm 1: 4-5.6 R ED MSC
  32. 75-300mm 1:4.8-6.7 ED MSC
  33. 75-300mm 1:4.8-6.7 ED MSC II
  34. 100-400mm 1:5-6.3 IS ED MSC
  35. 150-400mm 1: 4.5 TC 1.25X ED IS PRO

Decoding of the main markings of OLYMPUS lenses M.ZUIKO DIGITAL for Micro 4/3:

  • PRO - professional lens
  • SPLASH PROOF - a protected lens (so are marked, for example, all 'PRO'-lenses)
  • ED (Extra-low Dispersion) - low dispersion elements in the optical circuit
  • MSC (Movie & Still Compatible) - a special focusing system for comfortable video and photography
  • EZ (Electronic Zoom) - electronic zoom
  • IS (Image Stabilizer) - built-in image stabilizer
  • MACRO - macro lens
  • Fisheye - ultra wide angle fisheye lens
  • R (?) - lens with an updated design
  • II - second version of the lens
  • TC - built-in teleconverter
  • the lenses 9mm 1: 8 FISHEYE и 15mm 1: 8 (MF) do not have auto focus

All Olympus Micro 4/3 cameras

Olympus Pen EP Series:

Olympus OM-D EM Series:

All Panasonic Lenses for Micro 4/3

  1. 8mm f / 3.5 Fisheye
  2. 12mm f / 1.4 LEICA
  3. 14mm f / 2.5
  4. 14mm f / 2.5 II
  5. 15mm f / 1.7 LEICA
  6. 20mm f / 1.7
  7. 20mm f / 1.7 II
  8. 25mm f / 1.4 LEICA
  9. 25mm f / 1.4 LEICA II
  10. 25mm f / 1.7
  11. 30mm f / 2.8 MACRO OIS
  12. 42.5mm f / 1.2 LEICA
  13. 42.5mm f / 1.7 OIS
  14. 45mm f / 2.8 LEICA MACRO OIS
  15. 200mm f / 2.8 LEICA OIS
  16. 7-14mm f / 4
  17. 8-18mm f / 2.8-4 LEICA
  18. 10-25mm f / 1.7 LEICA
  19. 12-32mm f / 3.5-5.6 OIS
  20. 12-35mm f / 2.8 OIS
  21. 12-35mm f / 2.8 OIS II
  22. 12-60mm f / 2.8-4 LEICA OIS
  23. 12-60mm f / 3.5-5.6 OIS
  24. 14-42mm f / 3.5-5.6 OIS
  25. 14-42mm f / 3.5-5.6 OIS II
  26. 14-42mm f / 3.5-5.6 OIS PZ
  27. 14-45mm f / 3.5-5.6 OIS
  28. 14-140mm f / 4-5.8 OIS
  29. 14-140mm f / 3.5-5.6 OIS
  30. 14-140mm f / 3.5-5.6 OIS II
  31. 35-100mm f / 2.8 OIS
  32. 35-100mm f / 2.8 OIS II
  33. 35-100mm f / 4-5.6 OIS
  34. 45-150mm f / 4-5.6 OIS
  35. 45-175mm f / 4-5.6 OIS PZ
  36. 45-200mm f / 4-5.6 OIS
  37. 45-200mm f / 4-5.6 OIS II
  38. 50-200mm f / 2.8-4 LEICA OIS
  39. 100-300mm f / 4-5.6 OIS
  40. 100-300mm f / 4-5.6 OIS II
  41. 100-400mm f / 4-6.3 LEICA OIS
  • DMC-G1, DMC-G2, DMC-G3, DMC-G5, DMC-G6, DMC-G7, DC-G9
  • DMC-GH1, DMC-GH2, DMC-GH3, DMC-GH4, DC-GH5, DC-GH5S
  • DMC-GF1, DMC-GF2, DMC-GF3, DMC-GF5, DMC-GF6, DMC-GF7, DMC-GF8, DC-GF10, DC-GF90
  • DMC-GX1, DMC-GX7, GX7 Mark II, DMC-GX8, DC-GX9, DC-GX800 / DC-GX850 [DC-GF9], DC-GX880, DMC-GX80 / DMC-GX85 [DMC-G81]
  • DMC-GM1, DMC-GM5
  • DMC-G10, DMC-G80, DMC-G85, DC-G90, DC-G91, DC-G95, C-G100
  • can someone help organize the list of these models, add missing ones? unsubscribe in the comments

All Fujifilm X interchangeable lens digital cameras

All Fujinon Lenses

Fixes:

  1. 14 mm 1: 2.8 XF R
  2. 16 mm 1: 1.4 XF R WR Nano-gi
  3. 16 mm 1: 2.8 XF R WR
  4. 18 mm 1: 2 XF R
  5. 23 mm 1: 1.4 XF R
  6. 23 mm 1: 2 XF R WR
  7. 27 mm 1: 2.8 XF
  8. 35 mm 1:2 XC
  9. 35 mm 1: 2 XF R WR
  10. 35 mm 1: 1.4 XF R
  11. 50 mm 1: 2 XF R WR
  12. 50 mm 1: 1 XF R WR
  13. 56 mm 1: 1.2 XF R
  14. 56 mm 1: 1.2 XF R APD
  15. 60 mm 1: 2.4 XF Macro R
  16. 80 mm 1: 2.8 XF R LM OIS WR MACRO
  17. 90 mm 1: 2 XF R LM WR
  18. 200 mm 1: 2 XF R LM OIS WR

Zuma:

  1. 8-16 mm 1: 2.8 XF R LM WR Nano-gi
  2. 10-24 mm 1: 4 XF R OIS
  3. 10-24 mm 1: 4 XF R OIS WR
  4. 15-45 mm 1: 3.5-5.6 XC OIS PZ
  5. 16-50 1: 3.5-5.6 XC OIS
  6. 16-50 1: 3.5-5.6 XC OIS II
  7. 16-55 mm 1: 2.8 XF R LM WR Nano-gi
  8. 16-80 mm 1: 4 XF R OIS WR
  9. 18-55 mm 1: 2.8-4 XF R LM OIS
  10. 18-55 mm T2.9 MKX Cinema
  11. 18-135 mm 1: 3.5-5.6 XF R LM OIS WR
  12. 50-140 mm 1: 2.8 XF R LM OIS WR Nano-gi
  13. 50-135 mm T2.9 MKX Cinema
  14. 50-230 mm 1: 4.5-6.7 XC OIS
  15. 50-230 mm 1: 4.5-6.7 XC OIS II
  16. 55-200 mm 1: 3.5-4.8 XF R LM OIS
  17. 100-400 mm 1: 4.5-5.6 XF R LM OIS WR

Legend:

  • XF - Advanced Fujifilm X Lenses
  • XC - budget, lightweight and compact lenses for Fujifilm X mount
  • SUPER EBC (Electron Beam Coating) - Electron Beam Coating Optics
  • Nano-GI (Nano Gradient Index) - a special nano-enlightenment optics that changes the refractive index at the junction of glass and air
  • OIS (Optical Image Stabilization) - built-in optical image stabilization
  • R (Ring) - a separate ring for iris control
  • LM (Linear Motor) - linear focusing motor
  • WR (Weather Resistant) - all-weather lens type
  • Ashperical - aspherical elements in the optical scheme of the lens
  • Macro - Macro Lenses
  • APD (Apodization) - lens with an internal non-removable gradient filter
  • PZ (Power Zoom) - electronic zoom
  • Cinema - lenses designed for movie shooting
  • II - second version of the lens

For Fujifilm X there are also autofocus lenses from third-party manufacturers:

Materials on the topic

  1. Full-frame mirrorless systems. List of all cameras and lenses to them. Mirrorless fever, discussion, choice and more
  2. All cropped mirrorless cameras, discussion of systems
  3. Mirrorless crop that has stopped or is stopping its development
  4. Fallen Digital Mirror Systems
  5. JVI or EVI
  6. About mirrorless batteries
  7. Simple and clear medium format
  8. Smartphone Impact
  9. All announcements and news
  10. What's next?

Comments here on the site do not require any registration. In the comments, you can ask a question on the topic, or leave your feedback, or describe your experience. For the selection of photographic equipment, I recommend E-Catalog. Many little things for the photo can be found on AliExpress.

The material was prepared by Arkady Shapoval. My Youtube channeland Radozhiva's group on Facebook и VK.

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Comments: 105, on the topic: Spherical mirrorless crop in a vacuum

  • Lynx

    We are waiting for the psto about mirrorless under-sf.
    I vote for Hassel, he is honey!

    • Arkady Shapoval

      And there the cat wept for options. 1 Hassel and 3 Fuji.

      • Michael

        and 2 pentax

      • Lynx

        Duc, and even then the lynx cried - fuji, fuji, or fuji?
        If you have a lot of money, then you can buy an F plus 75 mm fix, because even the olik fans themselves repeat like a mantra “Olympus is a system for high-quality fixes” - read “on their own zooms, with crop 2 - it's all complete shit.

        • Arkady Shapoval

          With a high-quality fix, any camera, even an ancient one, will be very good. a concrete example is my old d90 and 58/1.4.

          • Lynx

            what the conversation is about. If the system does not pull its own zooms normally, then what kind of professional use are we talking about? Artistic portraits of women only.
            So yes, Pen-F is cool in this. If you have 150 pieces per bunch carcass + one fix

        • Eugene

          No. If there is a lot of money, then the machine gun em1mark2 + 12-100 f / 4 + any fix 1.2 that you like (By the way, Arkady correct in the table for olik not 23 1.2, but 25 1.2). Just hybrid autofocus oppresses the rest of the micra with contrast. In general, lenses are possible contrasting options. And Olik in my opinion is the only one with fucking support for old cameras — in every practically new firmware — new buns.
          PS: well, how could I forget about the stub))).

          • Arkady Shapoval

            Thank you.
            Updated label available at link (the link is also in the text of the entry).
            Redrawing a table in JPEG is very costly, but simply inserting it as a table on the site is inconvenient, it is very large and the site displays it crookedly.
            Also added here Yongnuo :)

      • Lynx

        To videographers of the average hand, we drag that yes - mikra and panas musthav.

  • York

    If it comes to that, the dormouse is in the first place, the mikra is in the second, and fuji ... Fuck knows.

    The manufacturer himself considers his crafts purely in an amateurish way.
    There is no native light, it was not and is unlikely to be.
    The choice of optics is minimal.
    Except for the exercises with the CSF, Fuji doesn’t specifically pull on the professional set.

    Canon M is even less suitable, but this is a canon, and you can expect anything from it. If R gets a crop line (rumors have been circulating for a long time), then M will disappear, if not, it will be a BZ crop, and optics will do it.

    Sigma generally smiled.
    Govnokontora, proffulyvaya absolutely all of their cameras, without bringing to a usable state none.
    Not having bothered to mount its SA mount at one time with at least some optics park.
    Not only did not overpower the native converter, but also failed to even agree on support with anyone.

    • NEO

      Sony has no prop fixes, no convenient cameras. Try to work with any a6500 in the field of photo. After it, any canon will seem like the best camera in the world.

      • NEO

        Sorry, bright zooms

      • York

        Somehow I somehow tupanul in a polemical frenzy 0_o - essno, speaking of my aunt, I meant A7 & Co ...

        :))))))))))))))

        Her crop, of course, is not very good in this sense ...

      • YellowDragon

        Tamron 28-75 2.8

    • Lynx

      Sony Crop, unlike FF, cannot claim to be the main professional camera. As a “second revolver” - all right.
      About knowledge of optics and light on Fuji - just the same eksperd! ))

    • anonym

      Sony E crop for work? Are you seriously? I understand that full frame. But crop sony e? For work? Have you ever seen these cameras in your eyes? Take a look! All questions will be gone.

    • Ivan Shikhalev

      “Having not bothered to mount my SA mount at least with some optics park”

      What???

      • York

        2Rys:
        Sorry, i.e. So now you can imagine a set of speedlights for plein air on Fuji at ease? With BCC, second curtain, TTL by air, etc.? And it will not be a Godox curve, and not oblique, but the most native system?

        Or, for example, 50-140 at one time pleased me, in the sense of ergonomics, on camera. Stamps are resting, yes.

        And, yes, there is still AF, the best among. That’s how I look, only Fuji and it is visible on the set that sports, that other movement.

        It's not about being bad.
        The thing is that the system is not positioned as a professional by the manufacturer itself.
        And Fuji is not going to invest in it, she is more interested in rich lovers.

        And you can shoot at least with a bucket, at least with a "watering can", only this is not a technique, but a photographer.

        • Lynx

          But do not you dohera want from every young system a set of functions, like Nikon's for fifty years? Especially from a company that is orders of magnitude smaller than Nikon simply in size and finances?
          Puff .. There are a couple of mikruh, there is a "retro puff", there is a "reportage" dear. Why invest in another one when there are tons of third-party solutions? For the nameplate? And many will be ready to pay twice for this?
          Do all canon crop crops have "ttl by air, bbc, and you-py"?
          There are even batblocks with “increase in shooting speed” (and sizes, up to a full-frame DSLR)
          Fuji is honestly trying to play the pros. Considering her videos with "wildlife photography, formula one" and other moments. Another thing is that even they understand that you will move Nikon and made a bet on “not like everyone else”. But!
          even “not like everyone else” is pleased to think that they are filming “as a type of professional system, and not as fuckers”.
          Yes, and a lot of professionals quite make money on Fuji.

          Fuji of all bzk crops is now the most complete and "can be assembled for any task, even if not as awesome as nikon."
          Yes, without choosing from 10 options. Yes, somewhere relying on third-party solutions. You might think that neither Nikon nor Canon has ever suffered.

          But 2k19 in the yard. What for you built-in TTL by air? fuck in general TTL on something other than a reportable flash? Buy an external flash meter, measure the scene, and do not force the manufacturer to shove the dick cloud of functions into the carcass only of a more expensive camera.
          and even Wi-Fi (for which you can only throw jeeps anyway), and TTL, and geotracking, and mental shutter speed control and a coffee maker will soon be requested.
          In general - yes "I would not take Fuji with me for reconnaissance."
          But if you wish, jerking off to the film aesthetics - it is quite possible to assemble a professional system on fuji (if you are ready to put up with breakdowns and disposability of its parts;)))

    • Alex

      Excuse me, buddy, there will be a little “Aesopianism”: you don't like cats? Oh, you just don't know how to cook them! To your phrase about Fuji: “... hell knows”, take a look once at the table, everything is clear there and without “spices”, the crop from Sonya smokes quietly on the sidelines (unless it calls for help from expensive and heavy optics from older FF cameras) ... The situation is aggravated by the fact that the same Zeiss trinity is available with an “X” mount. I support the author: Fuji has no competitors in the class of "polyshek".

      • Lynx

        yeah. Especially he has no competitors in terms of fragility and crappy maintainability, as well as the only service center in Moscow .. even from St. Petersburg, the term “to fix a broken button” is 48 days. fucking use of prof!

        • Alex

          But do not break the buttons and there will not be 48 days. The pros have more than one carcass, you should not save on the tool, but you still do not know how to cook (((

          • Lynx

            exactly!
            use the button for the purpose of "breaking".
            The fact that, statically, it is THIS button that most often fails on this model is simply all malicious users. ))
            two carcasses. One button, another flash. And you are in Nicaragua. And the only service in Moscow time. And not a single repairer takes on this plastic halabuda.
            And the dude with D4, whom he pricks a coconut: - but it was not necessary to break the button! ))

    • Paul

      “Sigma smiled at all: a govnokontora who proffulyted absolutely all her cameras, without bringing any to a usable state.”

      Oh, son, you wouldn't say "gop"!
      Sigma - like those Russians from the proverb who slowly harness ...
      FF-Foveon will come out - we will see, as they say.

      • Michael

        The main thing is to finish this ff and agree with the support of the rabbis from third-party products. Then there will be a dream right

        • Arkady Shapoval

          FP have already done. One of the few companies that has already made FF mirrorless. Also, Sigma is primarily an objective building.

          • Michael

            Means foveon and adobe support ideally

        • Paul

          The main thing is to make a software kit for Foveon so that the new Sigma clicks RAWs like nuts))

      • York

        So he already went out, do not remember? I remember, and remember, I’ve gotten drunk with ditches with SD1.
        Fauveon, what.
        Cool.

        Until now, people are writhing with these moons, then the greenery is climbing, do not understand where, then something else.

        And you, apparently, do not remember SPP, which either glitched, then crashed, then slowed down - it just did not work.
        Until now, my poppy is wallowing with this miracle of sigma thought.

        Without software, this is all about nothing.

    • Iskander

      And I almost bought a new M100. I wanted the M10, but they ended, instead of it they offered a hundredth with two lenses, but more expensive. As a result, I bought a used 100D.

      • Lynx

        about! weaving - and the beauty rules!

    • Iskander

      The M system may not disappear, but will be positioned as a “mirrorless for the poor,” but the native lenses for it will die out just like a dead-end branch of evolution. Where else can you use them, besides emoticons?

      • York

        So it is with any KB so.

        Forget about mirrored cross-compatibility ...

  • Vitaly N

    4 and 6 pictures.
    Ugh, I thought this was a test ...

  • Paul

    According to the table, I agree with Arkady, everything is completely clear here.
    On the EOS M system I will express a private opinion, for the time being I rent on Canon EOS M6:
    1. For 7 years of its existence, the EOS M system has released only 2 (!) Fast lenses: 22/2 and 32 / 1,4. There is also a dark interesting makrushnik 28 / 3,5. The rest of the lenses are shit zooms that don't deserve to be mentioned.
    2. With the help of an electronic adapter, the EOS M system cameras have access to an ABSOLUTELY WHOLE fleet of optics with EF and EF-S mounts. For example, I use a veteran Canon EF 50 mm f / 2,5 Compact Macro, which was released back in 1987, as a working macro.
    The advantages of this are obvious, but minus one - the system ceases to be compact.
    3. The viability of the system is indicated by the “iconic” autofocus fixes and zooms, without which it can not be seriously considered. This is (for full frame) 24 / 1,4, 35 / 1,4, 50 / 1,2, 85 / 1,2-1,4, 100 / 2-2,8, 135 / 2-2,8, 200 / 2,8, 24-70 / 2,8 and 70-200 / 2,8. The EOS M System has only ONE lens from this list: 32 / 1,4, which is 51mm equivalent. EVERYTHING! Comments are superfluous.
    4. The appearance of crop cameras of the EOS R system will automatically mean the death of the EOS M system, as
    a) they will be completely incompatible in optics, and
    b) there will be no point in two different mirrorless crop of the same manufacturer, especially since the EOS R system is technically more advanced than the EOS M.

    • Lynx

      and what are the advantages of using ancient, not designed for modern matrices, huge and braked glasses to use on the new bzk-crop system?
      on the principle "God, at least plug a hole in the bayonet"?

      • Michael

        In the extension of available glasses. Fishay, for example, under the BZK generally when the hell do

        • Vitaly N

          What's the problem? Put spacers on the mirror and that's it. And so, with getting rid of the mirror, we got another problem with an acute angle at the edges of the matrix.

          • Michael

            “And what are the advantages of using ancient, not designed for modern matrices, huge and inhibited glasses on the new bzk-crop system?” - I mean it. No problem, there are adapters for all bzk systems

            • Vitaly N

              I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that the “new lenses” will actually be mostly old ones with a long working distance in a new wrapper.

              • Arkady Shapoval

                Not all will be. For some, the tail will be lengthened, and for some, I’ll just do the recount for the bzk. Sigma does just that for some ART lenses, some are converted to L (for example 105/1.4where it makes sense), and some immediately go under L (for example, a new 35/1.2).

        • Arkady Shapoval

          For NX was native Samsung Lens 1: 3.5 10mm Fisheye. For Mikra there is Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 8mm 1: 1.8 Fisheye PRO и Panasonic Lumix G Fisheye 1: 3.5 / 8.

          • Michael

            Yes, I know for mikra. I haven’t heard about NX) But mikra doesn’t seem to have “big and slowed down” counterparts from the mirror segment (there are only 3/4 not micro and everything seems to be)

            • York

              There are third-party glasses, such as the same sigma, on the mirror 4/3 - the simple-minded sigma just put a half-frame button accordion on the FF glass, and that's it.

              Another thing is that the current microglasses are somehow not very good and micro ...

        • Lynx

          um ... there is no fishy under the bzk ???
          "Samyang" did not try to google ??

          • Michael

            This is not native. Talk about the system

        • Vladimir

          Fishies have already made a large number of Samtyangs and other manufacturers of manual optics. It’s for nothing that it’s not AF.

      • Iskander

        Lynx, buy already a new Hassel and one and a half native "new" lenses for it, write a review, and I'll see how you frantically search for adapters for it for "old slowed-down lenses." You write some kind of game. Do you think the glass turns yellow over time or what? How many years do you think the lens is considered old?

        • Michael

          Is there any point in buying a camera without optics? No money - we shoot with anything, if there is - we buy the necessary set.

        • Lynx

          A lens is considered old when:
          1. physically worn out
          2. Morally or technically outdated - does not meet the new requirements for resolution, chromatism, speed, other flaws, does not allow new matrices.
          Are you really an idiot or are you pretending not to know what defines the concept of “obsolescence” of a lens, and why do people buy new lenses for some reason instead of filming them with helios and screwing them into af-donors?

          • Arkady Shapoval

            Insulting the feelings of believers, Lynx for a while will leave in his cell to pray, fast and listen to the radio Radonezh.

            • Iskander

              But do sectarians do that? :-)

              • Arkady Shapoval

                Do you really want to keep him company?

      • Paul

        “And what are the pluses to use on the new bzk-crop system ancient, huge and braked glass, not designed for modern matrices?
        on the principle "for those, God, at least plug the hole in the bayonet?"

        Yah?!
        The Canon Compact Macro 50 / 2,5, which I gave as an example, focuses on many modern plastic fixes in sharpness and microcontrast, because
        a) a macro lens, and
        b) was created in the era when the word “marketing” sounded only in the dissertation, and the glass was made by engineers))
        His autofocus is quite noisy and slow, but he is suitable for shooting landscapes, urbanism and actually macro, because it is razor-sharp, especially since you can turn it off at any time.
        And I don't shoot video on my EOS M6. From the word "absolutely".

        • Lynx

          wow!
          Do you know that the old formula 1 makes a completely new Cossack?
          If you bought this “makrik” at its market price at the time of production, and there would be new makriks next to it, I would look at your arguments and “the best is just always the old, but now everything is shit (in fact, I have a top objective there is no money, but I'd rather pretend to be a deceiver! ”)

          • Iskander

            Lynx, old - not necessarily bad. For example, Canon's fifty-kopeck piece with STM is noticeably slower than the old buzzing second version. The same situation is with the whale 18-55.
            Hassel when to buy? :-)

            • Novel

              Not true. Well, it’s not true. STM focuses noticeably more precisely, quieter and faster. Did you compare them side by side?

              The first, by the way, is even slower due to the larger stroke of the helicoid.

            • Novel

              And I’m silent about 18-55. Both in speed and in characteristics.

              • Iskander

                Quoting from a review of the fifty-fifty STM: Auto focus speed is average (not high, but not low). Unfortunately, the focusing time from infinity to MDF and vice versa is about twice that of the Canon Lens EF 50mm 1: 1.8 II.
                Even the whale 18-55 IS II is faster than the STM fifty kopecks, yes, I compared, the fifty kopeck can fiddle back and forth for quite a while, and the whale catches quickly and quickly, it can be twisted a couple times. Compared to 100d.

              • Arkady Shapoval

                The new whale generally instantly focuses, I would be amazed at its motor.

  • Eugene o

    NikonRumors is actively discussing the topic with Nikon's UPC crop - something like the Z3 or Z5. If this is a solution based on or equal to the D500 sensor, with the V2.0 autofocus from the Z6 / Z7, then this could be a serious claim to success, especially considering the theoretical compatibility with AF-S and AF-P lenses. At least Sonya can move.

    • Arkady Shapoval

      Soon M6 Mark 2 comes out, 32 megapixels on crop 1.6 sensor :)

      • Iskander

        Question - WHY ???

      • York

        So under this M6-2, at least 32MP, at least how much, there is still no optics. And not the fact that it will be.

        Why do I need a box without glasses?

        • Arkady Shapoval

          You understand that, and many users will be content with whale Canon Zoom Lens EF-M 18-55mm 1: 3.5-5.6 IS STM from the delivery and will never be removed from the camera.

          • Paul

            You must immediately glue it on superglue)))

            32 mega on a crop is pure marketing. Can you tell me at least one EF mount lens that would allow a 64M matrix (in terms of FF)!

            • Paul

              Yes, and a matrix high-end stub for cameras with such a matrix is ​​required to exclude micro-lubrication.
              Those 24 MP that are on the matrix of my EOS M6, and that, in my opinion, are redundant. Optimal would be 18 MP, as on the first EOS M.

            • Arkady Shapoval

              In terms of FF it is 82 MP :)
              32 * 1.6 * 1.6 (the area differs as the square of the crop coefficient)

              • Paul

                Sorry, forgot)

              • anonym

                82mp, pipets, only Sigma 40 / 1.4 and 55 / 1.4 will allow them

            • Ivan Shikhalev

              Already 24 on crop is marketing. This is how I, as the owner of 77D, say.

              • Alexey

                Anything over 8 megapixels on a crop is already marketing, if a crop camera is not for professional photography.
                The same 5D with 12 megapixels on the FF is quite fine with the resolution for amateur photo tasks. Important DD, color reproduction and work at high ISO. For this, a large pixel is just good. Not ready to sacrifice everything for permission.
                I look towards new technology, including the UPC, but the Canon 5D for its modest money draws a picture that I have enough with my head. Unless the dynamic range is narrow.

              • Vitaly N

                That's right, marketing. Only now no one will produce a crop with a modern matrix with 6-10 megapixels. To crash the FF market? For which many people switch to FF - for high ISO. Will it be needed if the crop starts shooting at ISO 6400 and higher with almost no noise?

              • Alexander

                from personal experience.
                I didn’t notice a special difference between 16MP and 24MP on the crop, but I have already left the crop a long time ago :)
                of course there is a difference between 6MP and 16mp, I have no idea what vision problems I need to have in order not to notice the difference in resolution.

                regarding ff.
                5Dmk2 is much more noticeable and better in the picture than the first step, in terms of detail. total 24mp is much more noticeable and better.
                36MP can actually be a little better than 24MP, but not globally.
                46MP is much, much noticeably better in detail than 24MP.
                even if then downsize to 24MP, the difference is noticeable.

              • Alexander

                Vitaly N, ff first of all pass because of work with flu.
                a good crop on a modern matrix is ​​much less noisy at high ISOs than ff on an old matrix, but I am sure that Alexey and others will not switch to a crop with a flat picture because of this.

              • Ivan Shikhalev

                No, as for me 18MP for crop just right. Less is not necessary.

  • anonym

    Good self-irony in the title of the article. 5dm2 is better with a range of 400.000 than these whistles

  • Alexander

    If we discuss something spherical in a vacuum, especially all types of one and a half crop, then why not say a few words about concepts such as workflow and the business process?
    Today, the workflow for many who bought crops 8 years ago has changed dramatically - removed, a couple of clicks for processing - sending to Facebook, Instagram, etc.
    Those. they won’t buy crop anymore.
    In developed countries, the business process for the pros has changed. There is no need to invest five to seven thousand dollars in carcass and optics, everything is rented as needed and the costs are written off immediately.
    Therefore, the need for carcasses and lenses has become much less.
    (There is one instance on the forum that bought one camera at some time and always envies how others used these different cameras and generally don’t even realize that you don’t need to buy a camera and optics, but you can take different ones only for specific tasks specific goals).
    Therefore, any one-and-a-half crop requiring an investment of more than $ 1000 has very limited demand. Which in turn can make its production simply unprofitable, sooner or later, due to cannibalism on the part of the full frame.

    • Iskander

      Capital itself will sell us a rope on which we will hang it (C).
      Personally, even if I switch to full frame, I will definitely not buy a fancy DSLR, and no DSLR at all, and I will not buy the newest Canon RP-type mirrorless camera, but I will wait until the herd passes, go down the mountain and ... buy an R five years ago.

      • Novel

        This is when the EOS R gets all the amenities like matrix stabilization and normal battery life? Oh well.

        By the way, I admit you are right about the focusing STM and non-STM version of Canon fifty dollars. I compared them sequentially, so it stuck in my mind how slow and noisy the non-STM version is. In reality, they are comparable in the photo - I reviewed several tests, on certain frames the non-STM version is faster and more confident, on some - STM. The latter prowls less, but immediately mistakenly drives the lens unit in the wrong direction, and then slowly returns it back. In the video, STM is preferable due to the smoothness and silence.

        • Iskander

          Well, matrix stabilization does not particularly bother me (there is - good, no - we'll break through) - the stub on the Canon lenses is enough for the eyes.
          With a battery of mirrorless cameras, yes, the problem seems to be that all the brands have conspired, the feeling is that they have one owner. And this already smacks of monopoly - a criminal phenomenon from all sides. But recharging via USB saves a little, albeit with some wild adapters. I'm sure the Chinese will soon invent an adapter for a cigarette lighter in a car or laptop, if they haven't already.
          Yes, yes, it is exactly 50 1.8 STM that has the ability to blunt and not understand which way to go when refocusing. Well, okay, for such a price this is normal, they have fallen in price one and a half times in the last year.
          The novel, in turn, I admit, sho interpolated the experience of the inhibition of fifty dollars of STM on all STM lenses, including the whale 18-55 lenses. Maybe not all STMs are such brakes? By the way, I recently tested 18-135 IS STM in the store. Sharpness at 18mm is simply not there, the veil around the glare, chromatism, but at 135mm it's just a razor! Kit 18-55 II (without STM) is 18mm much sharper. Is that how it should be?
          And in parallel, I tested two ancient televisions: EF 75-300 and the very ancient EF 90-300, the first seemed even steeper at a narrow angle than 18-55 and 18-135. Now I’m definitely confused, what should I take? You need another 18-200 to try.

          • Arkady Shapoval

            New Canon Zoom Lens EF-S 18-55mm 1: 4-5.6 IS STM just a bullet (namely version 4-5.6)

            • Novel

              It is generally perfect for a whale and given its size. Even these third of the stop aperture at the wide end is not particularly annoying, in combination with the 100-200-250D excellent travel zoom.

            • Iskander

              Arkady, I still want a larger focal range to replace the 18-55 staff, but with the same quality and with STM. For video, superzoom and STM are still more convenient. Yes, and for the photo I want something universal, in case - oh, birdie, birdie! :-)
              Do you think this bad behavior of 18-135 at wide angle is the norm?

              • Arkady Shapoval

                No, not the norm. I think something went wrong.

          • Novel

            Moving the entire lens block is always expensive regardless of the engine.

          • Igor

            “With the mirrorless battery, yes, the problem seems to be that all the brands have conspired, the feeling is that they have one owner. And this already smacks of monopoly - a criminal phenomenon from all sides. "

            Rather, it smells like a foil hat. A long time working on DSLRs is achieved not by the quality of the batteries, but by a very thoughtful optimization of energy consumption. The viewfinder does not eat energy, the exposure meter turns off after 30 seconds of inactivity, power is supplied to the memory card exclusively during reading and writing, initialization of the connected optics and media directly at the time of connection to save time and charge each time it is turned on. Now turn on the video on the mirror with the optical stub turned on and AF tracking, and you will be horrified to find that it will discharge faster than the mirrorless camera. There is apparently an even larger conspiracy) 0

            • Michael

              You can just take time laps. 2 hours astrophoto and no battery

            • Iskander

              Well, you must admit that the battery capacity in DSLRs is still higher than that of comparable mirrorless cameras. The dimensions of the case allow. And they eat in Live View the same way. But! Many mirrorless cameras can already recharge via USB, like phones - and that's a big plus. Does anyone know a DSLR that can do this?
              Let's say you have a car. And every evening you remove the battery from it, insert it into a special (!) Charger to charge it the next day. But there is no generator in the car! Is it not squalor?

              • Arkady Shapoval

                When there is one battery, YUSB charging is acceptable and funny, but when there are 5 of them, you cannot do without a separate charger (of any type) during long shooting. Even if you charge at home, it seems like something strange to insert and remove aki into the charging chamber.

              • Michael

                But (if you don’t run with the camera), you can stick a power bank or other source into YUSB and not push the camera from changing batteries mode. I'm all about interval shooting

              • Vitaly N

                There is only one caveat - some mirrorless cameras, when connected to USB power, go into communication mode with a computer ...

              • Novel

                In the Sony A7 MK3, the battery lasts for 700-800 shots, which is more than the d750 or 5dm3 in live view.

              • Arkady Shapoval

                Want an interesting fact? I have Sony NEX-3N and on a single charge I can easily take 1500 frames, sometimes even more. The battery is there with the little finger. In such cases, the nature of the shooting is very important, if this is a report where the camera constantly shoots, and not just puts the battery in Live View, the number of shutter releases increases several times

              • Novel

                Compare bananas with bananas and lemons with lemons.
                In the new Sony BZs, an NP-FZ100 battery is installed, it is also in the A9, at 2280 mAh, which allows you to get the same number of frames in comparable shooting conditions with live view shooting.
                In other words, with active shooting, you get at least 700 frames per charge. This is more than enough to stop moaning for weak batteries in the bz.

              • Novel

                For comparison.
                The new bz ff Panasonic s1 is equipped with a 23Wh battery that lasts for 400 frames without activating auto power off and for 1000 frames with auto-sleep activated. At the same time, circuitry and ibis Panasonic are very far from efficient energy consumption.

              • Michael

                Yes, I also heard about the report. Not even so) if the camera is turned off after the end of the series, the resource is about 1000.

              • Novel

                Panasonic does not need to be turned off, there the sensor is triggered.
                Panasonic weighing 1kg is an example of how to get picture quality at any cost. Sony a7 mk3 is an example of a powerful optimization of power consumption that, complete with an excellent battery, already gives more than enough frames, even in a report without it.
                And bz don't have to slam the mirror)

  • Alex

    Good day!
    On the topic of mirrorless: friends from the Middle Kingdom do you plan to send you a novelty for an hour to review?
    Oh, how I would like to read an adequate review on their hybrid with a 3/4 sensor and an EF boynet under the control of an android ... yongnuo yn450.

    • Arkady Shapoval

      yn450 do not plan, but they plan another micro 4/3 technique, which has not yet been announced.

  • Arkady Shapoval

    Suddenly, Sony launched a pro wagon under its crop: https://radojuva.com/2019/08/anons-sony-e-2-816-55g/

  • Vomper

    typo in the table, correct "Panasonic"

    • Arkady Shapoval

      Fixed

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