Mirrorless fever. System selection discussion

This is an ode to full-frame mirrorless cameras with autofocus support.

Mirrorless fever

Mirrorless fever. In the picture, a reference to Alice Madness Returns

Who is the first - that and the slippers!

It all started with Sony. The cropped mirrorless cameras with E mount grew into full-frame cameras with FE mount:

  • October 16 2013 Two full-frame mirrorless cameras were presented at once: Sony a7 и Sony a7r... Sony calls them ILCE (Interchangeable Lens Camera E-mount, E-mount camera with interchangeable lenses). Later, the 'a7 x', 'a7R x' line was supplemented with the 'a7S x' and 'a9 x' rulers

After two years pulled up LEICA with L mount:

  • October 20 2015 a full-frame mirrorless camera came out Leica SL (Typ 601), the first camera with a Leica L mount. This is the same mount that the alliance of Leica, Panasonic and Sigma will use for their future mirrorless cameras (about the older rangefinder cameras from Leica like Leica M9 mentioned below)

And only after about пять лет the others pulled themselves up

  • August 23 2018 full-frame mirrorless came out Nikon Z7 и Nikon Z6. Bayonet mount Nikon Z... My question is: is the Nikon 'Z7' model imitating the Sony 'a7' name?
  • 5 September 2018 camera appeared Canon EOS R and a little bit later February 13 2019 year Canon EOS RP. Bayonet mount Canon rf
  • February 1 2019 camera was announced Panasonic Lumix S1 и Panasonic Lumix S1R. A little later Panasonic Lumix S1H. Leica L mount, same as camera Leica SL
  • 11 2019 June development was announced Sigma fp, and on October 10, 2019 the camera was officially unveiled

For 2013, Sony's mirrorless full-frame system was young and attracted mostly enthusiasts. The cameras did not have a built-in image stabilizer, the park of mirrorless optics was very limited, the feasibility of switching to these mirrorless cameras was a big question. But time passed, the system developed, overgrown with lenses and useful things.

Sensors

The sensor (matrix) is one of the most important aspects of any camera.

Sony itself produces sensors for its cameras. It is worth noting that at the same time, Sony creates a huge variety of camcorders / camcorders, including those based on full-frame sensors, for example, Sony NEX-VG900 or Sony VENICE MPC-3610. The company has vast experience in creating sensors.

An essential stone in the Nikon garden is the fact that in their full-frame cameras they use sensors made by the same Sony company. Most likely the sensor used to Nikon Z6 similar to 'original' Sony a7 III. Sensor Nikon Z7 also made by Sony.

Camera Sensors Panasonic Lumix S1 и Panasonic Lumix S1R most likely from a third-party manufacturer (Towerjazz?). Rumor has it that Panasonic Lumix S1R uses a sensor from Leica Q2. No reliable data.

The data on the sensor manufacturer for Nikon and Panasonic are speculative enough and an exact answer on this question cannot be found.

Sensors for Canon EOS Canon does it directly and this is very good news. And the bad news is that the mirrorless sensor Canon EOS taken from a slr camera Canon EOS 5D Mark IV. A sensor Canon EOS RP taken from a slr camera Canon EOS 6D Mark II. It is worth noting that Canon also creates a huge variety of video cameras / camcorders, including those based on full-frame sensors, for example, for the Canon ME20F-SH. The company also has vast experience in creating sensors. It was Canon that became the first company to release the first successful full frame in the face Canon EOS 1DS.

Stand alone Leica. Which, in fact, still 9 September 2009 (09-09-09!) Introduced the first full-frame 'mirrorless' camera Leica M9. But Leica M9 It was a rangefinder camera (without Live View and autofocus) and does not fit the role of a classic mirrorless camera. Her full-frame CCD sensor for Leica M9 and all its modifications (Leica M9-P, Leica M Monochrom, Leica ME Typ 220, etc.) was developed and created by the legendary company Kodak, which had extensive experience in creating sensors. 17 September 2012 Leica M9 was supplemented by a rangefinder camera Leica M (Typ 240 and its huge variety of modifications), whose CMOS sensor was developed by CMOSIS, and manufactured by STMicroelectronics. Most likely the sensor LEICA SL (Typ 601) also manufactured by STMicroelectronics.

Lenses

Optics park is a very important indicator of any system.

Since 2013, Sony has increased a large number of lenses, both original and third-party manufacturers. A nice plus is the compatibility of cropped Sony Nex and Sony Alpha cameras with full-frame lenses, as well as the ability to install cropped lenses on full-frame cameras. Everything is logical and concise. A very, very strong advantage of the system is the openness of the protocol, which means that the development of lenses by third-party manufacturers is greatly simplified. At the same time, the possibility of getting a problem in the operation of a third-party lens with the release of a new camera is minimized. To release autofocus Tamron, Tokina, Sigma, and many small companies have already joined full-frame mirrorless lenses with an E / FE mount.

All Sony FE Lenses

Fixes:

  1. Sony FE 20 mm F / 1.8 G
  2. Sony FE 24 mm F / 1.4 GM
  3. Sony FE 28 mm F / 2.0
  4. Sony FE 35 mm F / 1.4 GM
  5. Sony FE 35 mm F / 1.4 ZA
  6. Sony FE 35 mm F / 1.8
  7. Sony FE 35 mm F / 2.8 ZA
  8. Sony FE 50 mm F / 1.4 ZA
  9. Sony FE 50 mm F / 1.8
  10. Sony FE 50 mm F / 2.8 Macro
  11. Sony FE 55 mm F / 1.8 ZA
  12. Sony FE 85 mm F / 1.4 GM
  13. Sony FE 85 mm F / 1.8
  14. Sony FE 90 mm F / 2.8 Macro G U.S.
  15. Sony FE 100 mm F / 2.8 STF GM U.S.
  16. Sony FE 135 mm F / 1.8 GM
  17. Sony FE 400 mm F / 2.8 GM U.S.
  18. Sony FE 600 mm F / 4 GM U.S.

Zuma:

  1. Sony FE 12-24 mm F / 2.8 GM
  2. Sony FE 12-24 mm F / 4 G
  3. Sony FE 16-35 mm F / 2.8 GM
  4. Sony FE 16-35 mm T / 3.1 PZ GC
  5. Sony FE 16-35 mm F / 4 ZA U.S.
  6. Sony FE 24-70 mm F / 2.8 GM
  7. Sony FE 24-70 mm F / 4 ZA U.S.
  8. Sony FE 24-105 mm F / 4 G U.S.
  9. Sony FE 24-240 mm F / 3.5-6.3 OSS
  10. Sony FE 28-60 mm F / 4-5.6
  11. Sony FE 28-70 mm F / 3.5-5.6 OSS
  12. Sony FE 28-135 mm F / 4 G PZ U.S.
  13. Sony FE 70-200 mm F / 2.8 GM U.S.
  14. Sony FE 70-200 mm F / 4 G U.S.
  15. Sony FE 70-300 mm F / 4.5-5.6 G U.S.
  16. Sony FE 100-400 mm F / 4.5-5.6 GM U.S.
  17. Sony FE 200-600 mm F / 5.6-6.3 G U.S.

The Sony E has an original 'A' mount SLR lens adapter with almost full support. True, there are many nuances with the adapter described in the review. Sony LA-EA4.

Nikon Z still has a very small lens park (exact list) In addition, the mount has a closed protocol, which complicates the development of lenses from third-party manufacturers.

List of all 'Nikon Nikkor Z' full-frame lenses for mirrorless cameras with Nikon Z mount

Fixes:

  1. Nikon Nikkor Z 20mm 1: 1.8 S
  2. Nikon Nikkor Z 24mm 1: 1.8 S
  3. Nikon Nikkor Z 35mm 1: 1.8 S
  4. Nikon Nikkor Z 50 mm 1:1.2 S
  5. Nikon Nikkor Z 50mm 1: 1.8 S
  6. Nikon Nikkor Z 58 mm 1:0.95 S Nod
  7. Nikon Nikkor Z 85mm 1: 1.8 S

Zuma:

  1. Nikon Nikkor Z 14-24 mm 1:2.8 S
  2. Nikon Nikkor Z 14-30mm 1: 4 S
  3. Nikon Nikkor Z 24-50mm 1: 4-6.3
  4. Nikon Nikkor Z 24-70mm 1: 4 S
  5. Nikon Nikkor Z 24-70mm 1: 2.8 S
  6. Nikon Nikkor Z 24-200mm 1: 4-6.3 VR
  7. Nikon Nikkor Z 70-200mm 1: 2.8 VR S

Lenses are designed to work with Nikon Z series cameras: Z5, Z6, Z6 II, Z7, Z7 II + Z50.

Existing adapter Nikon FTZ for SLR mount lenses, Nikon F does not support operation with older AF lenses.

Canon also has a very small fleet of mirrorless lenses (exact list), as well as a closed protocol.

An accurate and complete list of all Canon RF lenses:

The Canon EF mount DSLR adapter supports almost all lenses. There are no particular restrictions. In addition, you can choose from several adapter options and get additional functionality. But, unlike Sony, cropped mirrorless lenses and Canon EOS M cameras with mount Ef-m not compatible with Canon EOS R mount system RF.

There are also very, very few original mirrorless autofocus lenses for Panasonic and Leica. But they have a trump card up their sleeve - this is Sigma, which is part of the L-mount alliance and which over time will convert many of their lenses to Leica L mounts, and they have already converted many of them.

Exact list of Panasonic LUMIX S lenses (Leica L mount)

  1. 50mm 1: 1.4 PRO CBL
  2. 85mm 1: 1.8
  3. 16-35mm 1: 4 PRO CBL
  4. 20-60mm 1:3.5-5.6
  5. 24-70mm 1: 2.8 PRO CBL
  6. 24-105mm 1: 4 Ois
  7. 70-200mm 1: 4 PRO CBL Ois
  8. 70-200mm 1: 2.8 PRO CBL Ois
  9. 70-300mm 1:4.5-5.6 MACRO Ois 

CBL (Certified By Leica), Ois (Optical Istomach Stabilizer), PRO (PROfessional), MACRO (macro shooting capability)

Panasonic does not have an adapter for mirror lenses, since Panasonic simply does not have full-frame mirror lenses, and therefore the optics park cannot be expanded due to old autofocus mirror lenses. Almost the same can be said about Leica L.

Exact list of LEICA SL lenses (Leica L mount)

Sigma (Leica L mount)

The following lenses are available with the Leica L mount:

List of all full-frame mirrorless, as well as their cost

By links you can see the cost body in popular stores on the E-Katalog website:

By the way, the list above includes all the 'classic' full frame mirrorless cameras. The choice is already large enough.

My experience

I do not like that until now they have not released a truly professional full-frame super-mirrorless with a combo body like the top Nikon and Canon. When this happens, then I will completely and irrevocably consider the full-frame mirrorless cameras to be completely successful, a worthy evolutionary replacement for DSLRs. By the way, Olympus did such a trick in its Olympus OM-D E-M1XIt’s only a pity that this is a cropped camera with Kf = 2.0.

Recently, newcomers often ask me what full-frame BZK to buy? In general, I find a good balanced solution. Sony a7 III.

But experienced users and professionals can easily decide for themselves their future mirrorless camera / system. Leave your informed opinions on a particular camera or system in the comments. Now the mirrorless war has gained serious momentum and many cannot decide on their future system.

I'm not in a hurry and stay on the DSLRs for now.

Сonclusion

It's simple. Sony, as a mirrorless full-frame system, has managed to gain weight in 5 years, acquire lenses, technologies and in many ways outstripped such 'market whales' as Nikon and Canon. Nikon, Canon, especially Leica and Panasonic mirrorless systems are not as attractive as Sony. First of all, due to the small park of original optics and closed protocols. If in 2013 I could not even think that a mirrorless full frame from Sony could become the main system for work, then in 2019 this is quite acceptable. Of course, everything can change, and Sony can just as quickly leave the podium as it climbed there due to the lack of proper competition.

Materials on the topic

  1. Full frame mirrorless systems... List of all cameras and lenses. Discussion, choice, recommendations.
  2. Cropped mirrorless systems... List of all cameras and lenses. Discussion, choice, recommendations.
  3. Cropped mirrorless systems that have stopped or are no longer developing
  4. Digital SLR systems that have stopped or are no longer developing
  5. JVI or EVI (an important article that answers the question 'DSLR or mirrorless')
  6. About mirrorless batteries
  7. Simple and clear medium format
  8. All announcements and novelties of lenses and cameras
  9. Interesting solutions from Chinese brands: Yongnuo, 7Artisans, TTartisanMeike, Neewer, PerGear, Kamlan, Brightin starMitakon ZhongyiVenus laowa
  10. All fastest autofocus zoom lenses
  11. All fastest AF prime lenses
  12. Mirrored full frame on mirrorless medium format
  13. Autofocus Speed ​​Boosters
  14. One lens to rule the world
  15. The impact of smartphones on the photography market
  16. What's next (smartphone supremacy)?

Comments here on the site do not require any registration. In the comments, you can ask a question on the topic, or leave your feedback, or describe your experience. For the selection of photographic equipment, I recommend E-Catalog. Many little things for the photo can be found on AliExpress.

The material was prepared by Arkady Shapoval. My Youtube channeland Radozhiva's group on Facebook и VK.

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Comments: 256, on the topic: Mirrorless fever. System selection discussion

    • Cat

      And the Beatles are fake! How do you know? The neighbor sang! ))))
      And now we are analyzing the terrible and sad news from the link above.
      Firstly, the news is not about the ff bz market, but the ff bz market of JAPAN. I hope the difference is clear?
      We read on. The “fall” of the share is due to the fact that the date when Sony was the only one doing ff bz was taken as the starting point, ie. had 100%.
      Then 2 bz canon, 2 bz nikon enter the market, which, due to the cessation of sales of d610, d750, 6dmk2, 5dmk4 (in whole or in part), provide a total of 50% of the sales of the new bz ff market, where there are already 4 companies.
      In things and in $$$, Sony is fine.
      But if you look at the sales of Nikon and Kenon in pieces and $$$ everything is not so rosy there, it is obvious that the new mirrorless ones just take away the shares of their own DSLRs, i.e. pure cannibalism.
      For the consumer, such competition is only a plus, you can expect new technologies and low prices.

  • anonym

    The BZK has been supplanting for 10 years and cannot supplant the ZK. And because this is not a new technology, but the old one, all compacts work on the same principle, here only the optics are removable.

    • Cat

      You write complete garbage without even thinking about the flow of your unconscious.
      Bzk ff started in 2013. They, in principle, could not displace the mirrors then because of children's sores and the lack of a good and fast af.
      The main problems and testing were completed by 2018, the third generation of bz ff are slick, excellent cameras that brought down the ff DSLR market.
      Because of this, both Nikon and Kenon were forced to throw half-baked bz onto the market in order to at least somehow reduce the outflow of customers.
      And yes, both kenon and nikon reduce the crop and ff DSLR lines, precisely because they are no longer needed.

      • Artem

        and meanwhile, your already licked UPC and have children's sores. Weak battery, shutter lag.
        And in general, not everything is so simple. BHC is more convenient for walking and street photos when I took out the camera and took it. For work, they are not so reliable.

        • Pokemon

          He took out the camera without a lens?
          The laws of optics have not been canceled.

  • anonym

    M5, albeit a crop, but better than your sonok a6400 +

  • Vladimir Bogush

    The most confident and consistent manufacturer of mirrorless cameras and superior lenses is Fujifilm.
    Although I am a longtime fan of Nikon (D750) and have a full fleet of optics, I am quietly moving to this system (XT-3).
    Benefits - How to take off heavy boots and put on sneakers.
    A full frame is not good.

    • Hair dryer

      Given how successful the Z series has become, what's the problem with changing into sneakers and keeping the full frame? Modern crop top-level mirrorless cameras are in no way inferior to their full-frame counterparts in terms of price and size.

      • Pokemon

        I will NOT switch to Z due to the lack of an adapter for non-motorized lenses. It is fundamentally.
        While he is gone, greedy Nikon goes through the forest.
        *
        I didn't understand the second sentence at all.
        Crop bzk are not cheap, but what is cheap now?
        Crop BZK will be replaced twice in the near future. Those. these will be cameras for vloggers. Fuji and Sony have such cameras (a6500-a6600)

        • Alexey

          such an adapter, obviously, will never be. and not at all for technical reasons, although purely technically it is by no means easy to do.

  • Arkady Shapoval

    Record updated. Added all (all-all) original lenses for different mirrorless mounts for full-frame cameras. You can clearly see how many lenses Sony has managed to build up while the rest are cool. You can also see how much Sigma helped the Leica-L mount (for Leica, Panasonic, Sigma cameras).

    • R'RёS,R ° F "RёR№

      Where in Ukraine can you really buy sigma l-mount lenses? Google didn't help. Besides Panasonic, there are no offers.

  • Oleg

    Why did they forget the Leica M8, it is the first rangefinder mirrorless camera from Leica, but not the M9 ...

    • Arkady Shapoval

      Does the M8 have a full-frame sensor?

  • Jury

    Thanks for the informative and interesting article. As you can see, of the major players in the market of full-frame mirrorless cameras, only Fufifilm and Olympus are missing. The first, in addition to APS-C, still has a medium format GFX, but it's too cool and expensive. The second seemed to be stuck in the past with its micro 4: 3, to which the cameras of top smartphones are already breathing in the back. I wonder when they will start moving towards the full frame.

    • Arkady Shapoval

      I believe that after the publication Olympus OM-D E-M1X the company made it clear that it’s not about the full frame, nor about the APS-C.

  • Pineapple

    Due to the ingress of water, my d7000 ordered to live a long time, and now I am choosing a new camera. My main interests now are reporting in poor lighting conditions (small concerts in small clubs) and street photography, with an eye to turning my passion for photography into full-fledged earnings, reporting for the most part. I choose between d750 and z6. In the UPC attracts focusing on the eyes, an intra-camera stabilizer and slightly smaller dimensions. Scares off the EVI lag and battery life. I don’t care about the color, if necessary I’ll finish it in the editors.
    Of the lenses there are 28-75 2.8, 80-200 2.8, 50 d-versions and a bunch of manual ones for the soul :) I know that only 6-28 will work on z75, well, so I mostly use it. A couple of fixes (wide and long portrait) in any case will be needed sooner or later.
    Or is it better not to bathe and take the time-tested d750? How's the z6 focusing on fast-moving people in the dim light? In general, I want to hear opinions from the outside.

    • Valery

      If it’s mirrorless, then Sony7m3, at the moment the best in terms of c / c, did not stand near the z6,

      • Arkady Shapoval

        Soon the fourth will be released

      • Pineapple

        I don’t want to switch to another system yet. I bought a d750 already.

      • US6IBD

        Are you serious? Look on YouTube for the latest review “Top 10 mirrorless cameras from Toptygin”. A bit tedious, but the reviews are very serious. This is not for you not Kai W, who basically pours water. The Z6 bypasses both the Sony 7m3 and the Canon R. And the Z7, even more so, covers them like a bull. Although they are not the leaders of the TOP 10 either.

      • Hair dryer

        A little time passed and it turned out that in a number of characteristics the z6 turned out to be significantly better than the a73, so everything is relative :))

        • Ruslan

          Please tell me what is better?

  • Golden dozht

    Where's ff bzk Nikon DF?

    • Arkady Shapoval

      DF Is it bzk?

      • Vitaly N

        I will continue about Df - there is a review, but it is not in the list of camera reviews.

        • Oleg

          It is on the list, just in the “Reviews from Radozhiva's readers” section. Not very convenient, by the way. It would be much more convenient if they were in the general list.

          • Vitaly N

            Like the announcements. It seems that there are topics with discussions and reviews, but you will find FIGs.

        • Arkady Shapoval

          I did not do a text review on DF

          • Vitaly N

            Yes you get it. He’s like, but he’s not https://radojuva.com/2016/11/nikon-df-obzor-ot-chitatelya-radozhivy/... You have a lot of topics that you need to use a search engine to find, not a menu. Kick-ass how uncomfortable. The question has been raised more than once, but the answer is one - Google to help. Even in topics, when Df or other devices are mentioned, links lead to the store, and not to the review on this site. Why then such reviews and announcements - in order to be in oblivion or on the second page of Google? Exit the moderator mode and try to surf your own site without a search engine.

            • Arkady Shapoval

              No, I never answered "Google for help", there are 2-3 sections where materials are collected throughout the site :)

  • Arkady Shapoval

    Added vidosik on this subject.

  • Ruslan

    Sony, Sony…. Tell me, no one cares that their bzk have terrible screens and evi in ​​terms of color rendering, bb and exposure?

    It repulses me ... I had a sleepyhead a7 ... I have a second time olympus omd 10 Mk ii. And on the Olympus I can display bb on the screen (although the auto bb is almost perfect) and the exposure does not lie ..

  • Igor

    The Nikon Z6 and Z7 cameras and their second re-release are a pitiful resemblance to the UPC. Raw and ancient. They should have been released about 4 years ago.

  • Bresler

    There was information that the service life of UPC cameras is THREE times less than that of DSLRs of a similar class. The weight is already the same, the price is the same or even higher. Conclusion - in the coffin I saw these UPC. I thought for a long time, changed D5200 to D7500, that's enough for my life.

    • Arkady Shapoval

      In general, this is incorrect information. But faith is both terrible and useful.

      • Bresler

        I'm sorry, I didn't put it that way. Not the service life of the UPC, but the life of the UPC from one battery. Just don't write to me about spare batteries. I have them too, but over the years I realized one thing - you can count on the one standing in the cell. One can only hope for spare ones (I forgot to charge at home, etc., etc.) My chamber is always charged. But what you thought (camera resource) interested me. That's about the shutters https://club.dns-shop.ru/review/t-143-zerkalnyie-kameryi/8503-pro-resurs-i-lag-zatvora-zerkalnyih-kamer-i-bezzerkalok/ I didn't dig further, look for the matrix yourself (I think there is also not everything unambiguously there). Many years ago, after the ingenious apparatus Smena 8M, I dreamed of Zenit, but having twisted Zenit and FED in the store, I chose FED, and did not regret it later. That is, then I ran away from the DSLR. My best shots, it seems to me, were taken by Smena. Everything said above in no way pretends to be an immutable truth, and expresses only my opinion (possibly erroneous).

        • Arkady Shapoval

          in 7 years since that article, oh, how much water has flowed under the bridge (from a completely electronic shutter without resource limitation and ending with the appearance of TOP boosters with a declared resource of 400.000), now boosters are the only way of camera building, and it's not all that simple about Akums, I wrote about it here https://radojuva.com/2020/10/milc-evil-dslm-battery-life/

          • Victor

            That's right, in terms of batteries, everything strongly depends on the shooting style - from a multiple (smaller) in comparison with DSLRs, to even exceeding the mirror resource (when using an electronic shutter and continuous shooting)

          • Bresler

            Well, the author seems to have updated it that year. Well, the dog is with her. Take Nikon z50 vs Nikon d7500 compare. While about the crop. The price is exactly the same. Which one would you choose? I'm sure the cost of the Z50 is much lower. And if it would be cheaper, maybe I considered it for purchase. I waited for UPC cameras, hoping that they would be simpler and cheaper with the same characteristics. But alas. However, you are right, the future belongs to them, tk. it is more profitable for the manufacturer to produce the UPC.

          • Bresler

            An electronic shutter is good, a new super processor or two will handle noise just fine. There is no optical stabilization, we will make an electronic one, it will remove the blur. Further more. Why do we need optical zoom when our new processor can handle digital? As a result, instead of photography, our output is computer graphics and we cease to recognize ourselves on it. What's next? Film!!! They will release a camera analogue of Smena 8m at a frenzied price, development, film is the same. Marketers will glorify all of this, customers wry their noses at the word "digital camera". Take care of your D40, it will never become outdated.

            • Victor

              And what did you want to say?

              Don't like progress? Well, it doesn't depend on you in any way.
              Is it that new mirrorless cameras are expensive? And where did you get the idea that it is certainly cheaper in production? Are you involved in this production? Also, are you not aware that the price of a product does not consist only of spare parts?

            • Arkady Shapoval

              Matrix stabilization for all serious mirrorless cameras, none of the serious mirrorless cameras bother with digital zoom. Yes, your general passage is not very clear, including the mention of d40

              • Bresler

                It's just that you take such photos on D40 that most owners of top-end cameras will never take. It's not a compliment.

              • Arkady Shapoval

                This does not change the fact that the new technique is very good :)

    • Victor

      Why in THREE? Not at five, not at seven, not at two, at worst?))

      Do you yourself understand the absurdity of this information, or do you just want to believe it unconditionally?

    • Alexey

      This is some kind of delusional vulgaris. all that comes to mind is the thought of guaranteed obsolescence and failure. yes, that can be done. but only on purpose.

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