When writing an article 'Aperture and video on the Nikon CZK'I encountered unusual aperture behavior on different lenses with different cameras. Below I will describe my experience, but I ask readers to send in their conjectures and observations, indicating the camera and lens in the comments to this post.
Aperture on Nikon cameras
Bunch Nikon D80 / Nikon D5300 with lens Nikon DX AF-S Nikkor 35mm 1: 1.8G SWM Aspherical:
If you shoot at a fully open aperture (F / 1.8 for this lens), you can see how after the end exposure aperture blades instantly close and open. Presumably, the petals should not move at all, since the shooting takes place on a fully open hole. Petals close very tightly, but not completely. Exactly the same effect is observed in Nikon D80 when using the diaphragm repeater function.
The question is for what? And why there is no such effect on other cameras. And also why Nikon D5300 when turned on and off, Live View works more predictably - it only closes the aperture to the specified value and reopens it when exiting Live View.
Here is a visual demonstration on Nikon D80:
Here link to the original video с Nikon D80 and 35 / 1.8G + link to the original video Nikon D80 and Nikon AF Nikkor 35-70mm 1: 3.3-4.5 + link to the original video с Nikon D5300 and 35 / 1.8G + link to the original video с Nikon D5300 and Nikon AF Nikkor 35-70mm 1: 3.3-4.5. You can watch more interesting videos on my youtube channel.
Bunch Nikon D700 with lens Nikon DX AF-S Nikkor 35mm 1: 1.8G SWM Aspherical:
- If you shoot at a fully open aperture (F / 1.8 for this lens), then no closing / opening of the aperture occurs (presumably this should be).
- If you shoot with a closed aperture (F / 2.0 and F / 2.2 are used in the video), then the aperture blades first close to the set value, after which they close much stronger (presumably not completely) and open again.
- If you shoot at a completely closed aperture (the video shows F / 22), it is noticeable that the petals are closed completely.
Exactly the same effect is observed when using the aperture repeater function and when turning on / off the Live View.
Here is a visual demonstration on Nikon D700:
With the same cameras, the rest of the lenses that are at my fingertips behave exactly the same way, namely:
Nikon DX AF-S Nikkor 18-200mm 1: 3.5-5.6GII ED SWM VR IF Aspherical, Nikon AF Nikkor 28-105mm 1: 3.5-4.5D, Nikon ED AF Nikkor 80-200mm 1: 2.8D and Nikon AF Nikkor 35-70mm 1: 3.3-4.5. While observing, I use the 'M' mode, but the same happens in the 'A' mode. Before starting monitoring, I reset the cameras to factory settings.
I don’t think the cameras have any problems, as Nikon D5300 I got a review completely new, and Nikon D80 и D700 Recently been on the diagnosis. Also, I do not think that the problems are in the lenses, since different types and models of lenses (D, G, AF, NON-D, NON-G) behave the same on the same camera.
Unsubscribe in the comments. Thanks for attention. Arkady Shapoval.
All the same, these are the features of the camera, apparently. I also checked simple AF lenses 70-210 F4, it does not completely close the manual fix Nikon 200mm f4, at 7100 everything is the same.
This is good, so the main reason is the camera, which confirms the guess of my note.
on the D7000 when shooting in “m” mode, some shots are clearly different from the rest. Perhaps the reason is the same. On pentax k7, I did not notice this.
If identical matrices are still placed in different cameras, then there are no identical shutters in principle. Each camera has its own shutter design (what do I mean with the shutter, I mean not only the shutter, but also the mirror drive, the diaphragm drive), in some the mechanism is simplified, in some improved. In some, everything is powered by a spring, and the motor is cocked back. In general, a different mechanical implementation.
Probably the way it is.
Nikon d5100 Kaleinar 5n, Helios 81n (both glasses with dandelions), the diaphragm closes only to the specified value (tried on different aperture values), the petals do not make any extra movements, in the case of open girders, the petals do not move at all. There is the same story with Keith, but I won’t say 100% about the whale, because there is visually a very small little girl, and I don’t want to rely on my observation
Thanks. With a whale it’s really hard to determine. Even at 18-200 it is visually difficult, but still a slight movement of the petals is noticeable.
perhaps the solution lies in the principle of operation of the diaphragm closing mechanism.
I don’t understand the mechanics of cameras))) I suppose that this mechanism is designed in such a way that it performs a full cycle of “closing-opening” at each frame with a pause for exposure at a given aperture value.
I tested it on D7100 and Nikkor 35mm f / 1.8G. No unnecessary closings occur, from f / 1.8 to f / 8. The hole closes during the descent by exactly the same amount as in the preview (Pv button), then the diaphragm returns to the open state. Ditto on the Nikkor 50 f / 1.4G. The described effect of the D700, when the aperture after the shot closes more than it should be, I did not notice on these glasses and the carcass either.
hello again, I repeat fotik d5100 lens 55-300 to 55 diaph. 4.5 does not close, on the diaph. 5.6 hides and opens, there is no full closure, well, at 22 it completely closes.
and now the idea: Arkady, what if you take the new d5300 better to take it to the service and say that they say it’s not working correctly, so are the others and let them give explanations.
The camera is not mine, and there are no errors in the work. The feature is this.
this video illustrates this situation best http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-24oncXkpQg
Exactly :)
Good afternoon!
D7000 + 50mm 1.4G does not make unnecessary movements. Most likely these are camera features, not good and not bad.
By the way, for the sake of interest and research, you can record a video of such a trigger on some Nikon 1 at 400 or 1200fps! Probably, this is how you can accurately measure the intervals between camera actions ...:]
At hand, there is no such Nikon 1.
Easier to find iPhone6 Plus with 240fps.
Arkady hello.
Checked on the D90 + Nikkor 50mm 1: 1.8D.
At all aperture values (from 1.8 to 22), the petals first close to the set value (which is strange, even to a 1.8 not completely open hole), after which they close much more strongly and open again.
Also, the aperture behaves when you press the depth of field preview button.
One gets the impression that the diaphragm fulfills the full closing cycle with each frame, regardless of the set value.
“Even at 1.8, the hole is not completely open” - it seems that it is programmatically cut by 1.8 ...
No one noticed?
Perhaps if I didn’t close it would be 1,4 :)
Well, well, at least one more camera was found with such strangeness :) thanks for the tip.
Please, always ready to help for the common good ...
at fifty-fifty, this is normal, literally at 1,8mm the petals close at 1. On all that I saw there was such a chip
D7000 + AF50mm1: 1.8d did not notice unnecessary movements, with kit 18-105 and Tamron AF 70-300mm F4-5,6 Di VC USD did not see anything.
The usual jumping diaphragm, I’m not sure what unusual you found. Here is all described https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%94%D0%B8%D0%B0%D1%84%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%BC%D0%B0_%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%8A%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%B0#.D0.9F.D1.80.D1.8B.D0.B3.D0.B0.D1.8E.D1.89.D0.B0.D1.8F_.D0.B4.D0.B8.D0.B0.D1.84.D1.80.D0.B0.D0.B3.D0.BC.D0.B0
The question is why on some cameras the diaphragm closes while on others it doesn't.
Different implementations of drive mechanics may be.
For example, one camera may have a stepper motor in the drive - as much as necessary, as much and closed. Then he opened it back. Everything.
And in the other, the spring and the limiter worked before the limiter, and when the shutter closed, it worked further and the motor starts the spring again. And the diaphragm does not jump to the end because, for example, it simply does not have time to close, as the motor cocks the lever back. And when it is necessary to close to the end - then the stopper holds the lever as much as necessary.
This is exactly what is called not the perfection of the “pedal” diaphragm. The huge technical lag behind Canon eos since 1987. Such effects are possible on all Nikon lenses where there is no aperture ring! It is this that can clearly limit the size of the hole in the right place, and not the short-stroke lever. Even not a significant development on any part, but starting from the carcass and ending in the lens, at least a dozen of them, can distort the aperture value.
Since you think that this is such a bad design of the aperture drive, then buy several NEW cameras of different models and different classes - amateur, amateur advanced, professional and flagship and absolutely NEW lenses of different apertures and focal lengths and check on each carcass for each lens and check it out! And why new exclusively, to exclude "wear", as you put it, of the aperture lever both in carcasses and in lenses. And if you find all the same things that are discussed in the article, then these are definitely some features, and not wear of the parts of the diaphragm drive. This is so you don't say that Nikon is so bad and lags behind Canon.
Before saying this, do not forget (never forget) that there is NOTHING PERFECT. There was no, no and will not be, since ideality is only formally achievable, but in reality it is not for anything.
Nikon D3300 + Nikon DX AF-S Nikkor 35mm 1: 1.8G SWM Aspherical = everything is in order.
I dare to suggest: after the shot, the diaphragm closes to the end for a full sweep of the petals open / closed, so that there is a uniform development. I understand that the petals rub against each other and wear out in this place. Let's say that we always shoot at 2,8 with a lens with a maximum aperture of 1,8 and shot 10 frames like that. If the diaphragm “went” only from 000 to 1,8 and vice versa, then this area would only wear out. And from 2,8 to closed, the section of the petals would be in perfect condition, and when trying to shoot at 2,8, the petals would overcome a certain “step” that would lead to an out of sync of the whole process or jamming of the diaphragm. IMHO
Right !!! I think it is because of this that this effect is observed. If the petals were closed before 2.8 every time, then a production would form and then the diaphragm would start to bite when we would like to shoot on f4 for example! But Nikon engineers are not stupid, and they clearly knew and took this into account, making a full run of the diaphragm blades for prevention.
Why then on Nikon D7000, D7100, D3300, D5100 (of the tested ones) - the diaphragm closes only to the set value?
Alexander, I think this does not always happen, you need to try EVERY aperture, different shutter speeds, different ISO values, M and A modes, or Nikon could be programmed so that after a certain number of frames, he would run the aperture to the end on different lenses. Although I may be mistaken, which is most likely :) But the mystery remains a mystery so far) Only with our common forces and tests of various equipment bundles can we solve this.
Arkady Shapoval, how do your cameras and lenses behave with a diaphragm tutor? Because if the jumper lever worked always cyclically, the effect would be the same - either when you release the shutter or when you rehearse.
On the d80 and d700 (there is no repeater on the d5300) they lead in exactly the same way as described when shooting. D5300, upon transition and upon exiting Live View, unlike shooting, closes only to the set value and immediately returns back.
Arkady, if it doesn’t bother you, please remove the lens and see how the camera’s jumping lever without a lens behaves. He alone, without the spring of the lens jumping, will also try to close the hole?
Well, of course, on a camera without a lens, it goes down and up, how else?
Well, I meant: how far down? That is, how much does the camera cover the hole without using the lens spring? My suspicion is that over-closing the hole might be due to the lens spring pulling the camera lever down too much.
What "hole" can we talk about if the lens is removed from the camera?
when I put a G type lens and set the maximum aperture on the device (M mode), during the shot, the pusher does not move, because no diaphragm movement. If you remove the lens without changing the settings, then the pusher drops completely down. Perhaps there is not one of the contacts, if the pusher is lowered, with the lens attached. It is necessary to conduct an experiment on a lens without contacts, and a carcass with a rheostat and without :)
Then I read the article and remembered that when viewing Exif with 35mm 1.8G, “maximum aperture f1.7. O_o How can this be?….
Arkady, on which device did the diaphragm stop closing if it is set to fully open after resetting the settings? On the D700?
I reset it then, but I don’t think it matters.
and in conjunction with the D5300 with 35mm 1.8G is everything the same as on the D700 and D80? Yesterday, on the D700, something changed after the reset. I tried to achieve your situation at 3200 by resetting and changing the settings - it didn't work.
Well, at least occasionally read the text of an article, for example this one, it describes in detail how it works on the d700 and on the d80, and even the video is there. As for the reset, in fact nothing has changed.
I checked back in Kiev17 also closes exactly as far as the diaphragm is set, and not a millimeter more)
On manual lenses, the aperture travel limitation comes from the aperture control ring. If the ring is as open as possible, then the diaphragm will remain open. With autofocus lenses, when the lens is removed from the carcass, the diaphragm closes and when installed on the carcass, it opens completely and closes already by the drive in the carcass
Nikon D300S + Sigma 24-70 F2.8 HSM
the aperture closes to the set value, then opens. There is no complete closure.
It will be interesting to see the statistics of this experiment.
In the process, they only close at Arkady, and no one else)))
Well no!
Dmitry Nosov has a complete closure. (see above)
no, not just me :)
Nikon d200 + 35-70 also closes to the set value, then instantly twitches almost to the end, and opens back.
My second Nikon D50 works exactly the same.
Verified still at 18-55 and 70-210 (4-5.6)
Only if the closure can be seen well on d50, then because of the “instant shutter” (the shutter lag is extremely small, like at the zenith), it is much more difficult to notice the closure of the d200, but it really blinks.
d70s closes after taking a picture.
d5000 is similar.
and although there is another principle ..
And on my d80, the aperture is always slightly covered, even at 1.8
D7000, AF-S NIKKOR 35mm 1: 1,8G. At 1,8, the petals move slightly when triggered, a little more after triggering, but I'm not sure, since the movement is very small, a fraction of a mm. On the rest - without unnecessary movements.
It is easiest to assume that unnecessary body movements are a kind of adjustment of the diaphragm mechanism, i.e. determination of the reference point. The carcasses are different, the lenses are different, and that would not be the spread of the diaphragm setting, the engineers got out this way. Sometimes (full closing - set value - opening), counting directly during the shooting of the frame, and sometimes (set value - full closing - opening), presetting, for example, to speed up the shooting of the next frame.