For the opportunity to review MS MTO-11 10/1000 Many thanks to Alexander Gradovsky.
MS MTO-11 10/1000 with a light filter
TTX MTO-11 10/1000
Focal length: 1000 mm
Aperture: F / 10
Weight: 2.5kg
Filter Diameter: 120 mm
Optical design: 3 lenses, 2 mirrors, 5 elements and 3 groups
Mounting: replaceable, in this case "H" (similarity PRE AI without iris control for Nikon)
There are several options for the MTO-11 10/1000 lens. This review presents precisely the MTO-11 MS 10/1000 1983 model year, Lytkarinsky Optical Glass Plant... There is also the "CA" option, as well as different MC and non-MC lenses, and a somewhat similar lens MTO 1000A 10.5 / 1100. Strange but both versions MTO-11 10/1000 SA (letter A is indicated) and MTO-11 10/1000 (without the letter A) can have an interchangeable shank.
MC MTO-11 10/1000 indicators and mount for tripod
Focusing
The lens has a very large (huge) focus ring, which rotates all 360 degrees, from 8 meters to infinity. In fact, the lens has infinity race и run towards MDF less than 8 meters. Focusing is very smooth, when focusing, the front of the lens travels only 1 cm forward. Infinity begins after 200m on the focus distance scale.
МС МТО-11 10/1000 first-person view
DOF Aperture and Scale
MS MTO-11 10/1000 not has iris control rings and does not have DOF. The aperture is always in the same value and can not be changed, such is the design of the lens
Sample photo on the MTO-11 10/1000
Design
The lens has a wonderful telescopic hood, which helps him a bit to improve images in side and backlight. The whole lens is made very soundly, like a piece of metal pipe. A very useful property of the MTO-11 10/1000 MC is two types of tripod sockets - wide and narrow. The narrow socket fits modern tripods. And also, the protrusion with slots is duplicated on the lens with a shift of 90 degrees, which allows you to use the lens in both landscape and portrait orientation of the camera. This is really a very good design. The front lens (meniscus) is simply huge - 120mm. In the kit, the lens comes with several filters (just huge) and a nice black case for transportation. The disadvantage is the front cover, which simply puts on and does not snap into the thread of the front lens, the cover often flies off the lens by itself.
Sample photo on the MTO-11 10/1000
Second life on the figure
The MTO 10 \ 1000A lens received a real second life on digital SLR cameras, and the scope of its use has expanded significantly on the central brake cylinder. The lens gained great opportunities due to the ability of modern CZK to shoot at very high ISO. It decreases very much excerptat which you can shoot on the lens, which allows you to “freeze” fast-changing scenes during the day. Usually, MTO 10 \ 1000 was used for highly static scenes where long excerptswhich were the only solution to combat the small aperture of the lens. So, at MTO 10/1000 it was popular as an astronomical lens, on which the moon and stars were shot. It was very difficult to shoot a more or less scene in the afternoon with rapidly changing details in the frame. For example, on a sunny day, using a film with ISO 100 due to the fixed aperture of the lens, excerpt should be 1 \ 100. To shoot during the day, you need a very strong tripod to avoid movement. In those days, even a film with an ISO 800 value was quite difficult to find, because the problem of stirring was very, very serious. Using on modern cameras short excerpts from 1 \ 1000 to 1 \ 4000 with an MTO 10 \ 1000A lens and high ISO values, you can not be afraid for lubrication, using a monopod, which greatly increases the mobility of the lens.
Sample photo on the MTO-11 10 1000mm MS
Myths:
Mirror lenses are said to have a much lower effective aperture than indicated. This is due to the fact that when calculating the value of the number F, the front compensating mirror, which is not taken into account in the calculations, is not taken into account. Therefore, the real diaphragm of MS MTO-11 10/1000 has a value of the order of F / 16.0. If you have any information about this, I will be grateful for the informative link in the comments.
Sample photo on the MTO-11 10 1000mm MS
How to shoot on modern cameras and MS MTO-11 10/1000?
The lens of the MTO-11 10/1000 has interchangeable shank (back). Unfortunately, in the name of the lens there is no letter “A”, which is responsible for this possibility, because you just need to know. Interchangeable shank can be chosen as you like. For the Nikon system, I used KP-A \ N, as a result I got a lens with a native mount for Nikon. You can read how to use old lenses on Nikon in the section Soviet optics. For the Canon system, the easiest way is to use two adapters: KP-A \ 42 + M42-Canon EOS, in more detail in the section old lenses at canon.
MTO-11 on a monopod. Not for women's hands such a heavy lens.
Personally, I managed to shoot on the MTO-11 10/1000 MC holding the lens in my hands, using the automatic ISO up to 6400 and the minimum shutter speed from 1 \ 1000 to 1 \ 4000, though I had to use sharpness to get into sharpness bracketing focus and make inhuman efforts to hold the lens in his hands. So I got pictures of nature in motion, for example, fly of butterfly, which earlier, in the era of film cameras, it was very, very difficult to do on the MTO-11 10/1000. Of course, taking a tripod is much easier.
An example of a photograph on a MTO-11 10 1000mm MS. Bagel-shaped bokeh.
Attention 1: when used on modern Nikon central control centers, confirmation with a green dot does not work, and the electronic range finder does not work either. You can focus in Live View mode only with a tripod, and the tripod must be very, very strong. Using flimsy tripods and Live View, the picture on the display will “twitch” very much, which causes inconvenience and makes you nervous. Take off hand in Live View does not work. Taking off the hands, the lens will respond to any of your movements, even heartbeats will be displayed in the viewfinder with light jerks of the image. I do not see any possibility at all to use the lens with my hands. Personally, I managed to run with the MTO-11 10/1000 MC without a tripod for exactly 30 minutes, after which I was no longer glad that I had got out into the wild.
Attention 2: due to its size and weight, the lens can break the camera mount, therefore, it is strongly recommended to hold the lens itself with the camera on it (it will not work otherwise). Also, due to the size, the possibility of grabbing the handle of the camera is lost and access to the buttons that are on the left and right of the mount is lost. It’s very unusual that you can’t take the camera by the handle. Pressing the shutter button in this state is not very convenient. But, on the other hand, the lens does not catch the flash on my Nikon D40, D80 (precisely verified). In general, MC MTO-11 10/1000 is contraindicated for girls photographers.
An example of a photograph on a MTO-11 10 1000mm MS. Close-up pictures
Image quality
The lens gives quite normal image quality, slightly contrasting, but for a digital camera this is not a problem. Contrast falls under strong side and back light. Sharpness is average, but sufficient for normal shooting. Most importantly, there is no chromatic aberration, distortion and vignetting and a unique bokeh in the form of bagels.
An example of a photograph on a MTO-11 10 1000mm MS. Good sharpness of the lens.
Sample photos on the cropped CZK
All filmed on APS-C Nikon D200 DX, untreated, on-camera JPEG L, in image processing mode VI. Reduced size to 1600 * 1200 and imprinted data from EXIF. On camera with crop factor 1.5h EGF is 1500mm (one and a half meters of focal length). All removed from a monopod.
Examples of photos on a full frame (Full Frame)
All filmed on APS Nikon D700 FX, no processing, on-camera JPEG L, image processing mode VI. Reduced size to 1600 * 1200 and imprinted data from EXIF. Everything is removed from the tripod and from the hands.
Catalog modern brand lenses 'Zenitar' и 'Helios' can look at this link.
Comments on this post do not require registration. Anyone can leave a comment. Many different photographic equipment can be found on AliExpress.
Conclusions:
MS MTO-11 10/1000 unusual vintage super fix telephoto. It is difficult to use, the lens is very small aperture, but the MTO-11 10/1000 MC is interesting for its ability to shoot remote objects and interesting bagel-shaped bokeh.
Material prepared Arkady Shapoval. Training/Consultations | Youtube | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | Telegram
Maybe someone is lying around MT MT-11CA, I would buy at a reasonable price. We need just this one, lightweight and with multi-enlightenment. I have the old MTO-1000, the frames are excellent, but painfully heavy. Wahng@mail.ru
Who has MS MTO-11CA, buy at a reasonable price.
The desire to increase the focal length of the lenses while maintaining the small dimensions of the frame led to the creation of the original design of the lenses of the MTO series, consisting of lenses and mirrors deposited on a spherical surface.
But no. It’s just that Comrade Maksutov, a citizen of the USSR, came up with a new optical scheme, and Comrade STALIN ordered to introduce it into production in order to show foreigners that the Union has the most advanced optics in the world.
I must say thanks to Comrade Stalin, everyone found out that the Russians aren’t slurping cabbage soup. (Even the Russians themselves.)
I have this lens, but even in combination with a good tripod, it’s impossible to get a good sharp picture close to the frames in the review. Maybe an instance of this?
This, unfortunately, is a common thing. You need, for starters, a normal alignment.
It’s a pleasure to shoot the moon for them))
About the myth of effective aperture.
[I'm sorry if you have already written in the comments - I have not seen an answer.]
[And I apologize for not giving the link.]
A small note on terminology. From the context the phrase "effective aperture" should be replaced by "an effective (or working) aperture." MTO-1000 is technically an implementation of the Maksutov catadioptric system. The second mirror, although it has impressive linear dimensions, nevertheless cuts off a relatively small part of the luminous flux - about 10%. That in recalculation on the f-number will not umenshshenie from 1:10 to 1:16 (more than one full F-stop) and to about 1: 10.5 (less than one third F-stop). And even I used the term F-stop by inertia, H-stop (for the working aperture) would be more correct. And for light transmission - respectively, T-stop.
1) The aperture size is linear, and the diaphragm (short for "f-number") - the ratio, so that all are correct, it is not necessary to change anything.
2) Decided to your output by "reverse-engineering", and found that you mean the secondary mirror is 30,5 mm (or, subject to rounding, no more than 32 mm in any case). Logical, and "effective" f-number is really just falls to 1: 10,5.
But firstly, the secondary mirror may be a little larger. I don’t know what you measured, I have 38 mm.
Secondly, is there nothing else in there?
In the third - more than anything in the "effective aperture" has no effect?
3) Prompt - over time, nothing has changed?
4) Yes, the “effective diaphragm” may not mean exactly 1:16, but, say, 1: 14,3. But what does it matter? And if it’s absolutely absolutely necessary, then it is necessary to measure a specific instance on special instruments.
PS I wrote in the comments above: until 1:16, or do you think I’ll deliberately lie here ?!
Yes, I myself would like something to diaphragm was 1:10 but what can we do - "is C'est la vie", in the words of Andrei Mironov. And that is no reason something to deceive himself.
If you still have doubts, look identical comparison shots taken with lens and mirror lens. The captions can be found such ridiculous comments like "in spite of the same aperture ratio of the two lenses, camera equipment improperly increased exposure twice with mirror lens ..."))) http://www.rwpbb.ru/test/samyang500.html
There is a MTO 1000A lens on sale, the condition of the glass is perfect, in its own case, the price is 15000 rubles.
Tel +7911 261-2108-XNUMX, Peter.
There are pranksters. For such a price, you can buy a normal telescope of the same system, which will be noticeably sharper than the MTO and more designed for astronomy (doesn’t anyone take off the camera anyway?). Well, yes, and the telescope can also be easily removed.
A telescope mounted on an equatorial mount, with motors, of course, is easier and more convenient to remove, and you should do so.
MTO shku must also be on a mount with no options. My slightly modified Rubinar has shady terrain is not ideal, but probably comparable to Tselestron Nekstar 4 "yes. And it cost me more, buying a controversial course, nekssstar all debugged. The ruble fell and now it will probably be cheaper. But with regard to specifically MTO, they are, figuratively speaking - a penny. Although it seems to me that they are obsolete. A cheap price telescopes due to cheap Chinese labor force and total production volumes.
They shoot both MTO and Rubinars, for example, Alexander Rostov, if I'm not mistaken.
Not popular because of its small aperture.
The EQ-5 mount is commonly used)))
But have you tested the spyglass like a super-telephoto lens for a DSLR? If not, then you have an idea for a new review.
I don’t know how deadly expensive super televisions are, but the usual ones, like the one described in this article, give mediocre quality of a picture taken at long distances, due to its capabilities and natural interference, which makes the possession of such a lens, especially single-focus, quite limited in application, so as usual, it makes no sense to remove the roof of the building 5-10 km, if you can approach / drive up and photograph the roof from a closer distance with a more compact telephoto camera, especially since the quality will be better, and people looking at the photo they won’t understand if you took a picture of the dome of the church from 5 km or 2 km.
Accordingly, it makes little sense to carry an extra 2,5 kg with you in the city, unless you assume that suddenly something like this happens within 10 km of you that requires a photo right now, and not when you can get closer .
Taking pictures of animals and birds in nature, yes, that’s another, the distances are very important there. But what if we use not similar bulky lenses for such shootings, but telescopes, which can be connected via a T-adapter to a DSLR instead of a lens?
PS As for the photo of the moon, which is also of limited use, the moon shot on a cell phone with a normal camera by simply connecting the camera’s eye to the eyepiece of the pipe will produce about the same picture quality as a DSLR with the described lens, and if the pipe has a very high multiplicity, it’s better due to well-visible craters. It has its own nuances, the tube should naturally be on a tripod, and the phone is mounted on it with a special mount and you need to take a picture with a voice command so as not to touch this design at all, well, there are other technical issues, but that's not about that now.
I come back to the question: Have you had any experience using a telescope as a lens, and if not, you can do such a review, I think it will be interesting to readers, because unlike a telescope, a telescope is more compact and convenient not only for shooting the moon, but both in nature and in the city. And if the pipe with variable multiplicity, then it turns into a super televisor with a variable focal length. I have a Yukon 20-50x pipe, but unfortunately her eyepiece does not imply the possibility of using a SLR as a lens to test, so I have to confine myself to shooting only on the phone through it. And no one has acquaintances to test and see what photos the SLR + spyglass turns out and how convenient the process is.
Here's an example photo taken on a Samsung mobile through the Yukon spyglass. The optical zoom is 50s and a bit of digital zoom has been added (otherwise the picture will not be on the whole screen, only around the center), plus a little post-processing, such as brightness, sharpness.
The EGF of the phone’s camera is 31 mm, with a 50x pipe, the equivalent of 1550 mm is obtained, that is, the EGF of the crop with the lens considered in the article. But I still had digital zoom added, I don’t remember how much. But here is just an example of a photo. The main thing, of course, would be a test: the quality of the photo and the convenience of shooting a SLR + a spyglass instead of a lens.
Hello Oleg.
I will answer your questions.
Take a closer look at your picture of the moon: any once it becomes obvious that the photo was taken a mobile phone. Quality is good, but compare with the photos taken with cameras: you want whether to laugh, or cry - craters, the surface is all there is, and normally, but for some reason there are no parts, small gorochek, mounds, where they are gone? The impression is as if they were “ironed out” from the photo. Where color painting of the moon, which is clearly visible on normal photos?
That is why they take pictures with cameras and not mobile phones.
About the use of telescopes.
I have one with a T-adapter and a semi-apochromatic lens - the quality is great. But it is in the center, and the field in her frame does not cover even the MTA. A telescope used by turning system, and removal of the focus is much smaller than the working length of a reflex camera. The T-thread is used to mount other devices such as standard 1,25 ″ eyepieces through an appropriate adapter.
You can use the lens separately, but then have to carve for his own body and decide on this shank - mounted.
When photographing through the eyepiece, the light loss is extremely large, and the folding aberrations of all the optical nodes in the path of the beam greatly spoil the picture. And you need a combination of the pupils of the camera and the eyepiece. But it is possible, and many were engaged in such a kindergarten, on the corresponding section of their astrophotographic path.
Good luck!
Add aperture to the tube and remove from the phone at a 30 second shutter speed with a good tripod.
How do you imagine that?
30-second shutter speed?
Aperture - exactly need?
Will there be no lubrication?
Have you tried?
"This is completely nonsense!"
Good day. There is an MTO lens available, if interested, please write to the email.
nikita_med_popov@mail.ru
Presumably MTO-11
Presumably MTO-1000 Lytkarinsky.
You can take a picture (and send a photo here) of your lens from the front lens, and everyone will read. Give it a try!
Available 500 and 1000. For sale, anyone interested.
dkdimash@gmail.com
Are you sending abroad?
there is MTO-1000 70s release
Tiraspol
Hello! Regarding the conversion of the aperture ratio of the reflective mirror. From the photo, I figured that the diameter of the second mirror is 30 mm, which means that it blocks 1/16 of the area of the main mirror. That is, only it passes the light flux 15/16. A lens without a mirror would have f / 10, which is f / 10,3. But considering that there are only three lenses (and there are few glass-to-air transitions), there is apparently no loss of light-gathering power compared to conventional lenses. Remove one and the same frame on one camera settings - put that MTO not lose in brightness
Albert, You are far from the first with such an opinion. The answers to your comment are given above. Do not be lazy to read other people's comments.
Maybe someone knows how to turn a ring with tripod sockets?
Anonymous, did he understand what he asked? Ring with jacks - a body itself! Around what to turn it? Around the lens? :-)
Oh well, I understand your thoughts.
You should not rotate the lens but the camera, the lens should ALWAYS be on a tripod, and not at the side of it or at an angle, think for yourself.
The rear part of the lens is called A-Shank. It is fixed with three side screws. If you want to change the position of the camera on the lens, then you need to do the following:
1) Loosen these screws, each at the same speed
2) Install the camera on the lens in the usual way (using the adapter ring, if necessary)
3) Position the camera in the desired position by turning it on a weakened shank
4) Mark the position of the shank on the lens, or rather the place where the locking screws of the shank are screwed
5) Remove the shank completely, and drill holes in the right places (the same as the original ones)
6) Install the shank and tighten the screws in a new position
7) EVERYTHING!
Put on the camera, mount the lens on a tripod and rotate the camera without applying excessive force. I did it without any problems.
And yet, on the Canon 600d with the M42 probe, the lens stood up without a magnifying ring.
+ Andrii, I'm glad that everything ended well with you.
And though you have written "without putting excessive force," that is, be careful, things are not so rosy.
Is the concept of "Strength", and there is a "moment of force" and "Track", through which you can decide what power really was. Due to the large diameter of the MTO, you increased the force acting on the camera mount and on the adapter, it turned out to be more than the one with which you twisted your MTO.
The lens manufacturers did not drill holes in it (or these are not deep holes) under the 3 fixing screws of the adapter with sharp conical ends, and they stuck into the body of the MTO lens shank.
And you took and scratched the grooves, with the help of increased strength. That is, you damaged the shank. Not fatal, but still. Now turning the lens in the opposite direction will be much easier, and by accident, too. And if you repeat the rotation several times, the lens will simply rotate freely (hang out). Like this.
It is necessary to do as I wrote a post above.
+ Andrii, photo class, thanks!
guys need help !! the flash shoe rests on the lens and does not allow the mount to snap into place ((((Nikon D5500, it has a slightly smaller case, apparently, therefore, advise what to order or buy in order to slightly extend the length of the thread
Derevyanny, what do you think, are you the first to have such a problem? Or do you think that the rest are not so bold to ask such a question? Maybe you want to be specifically answered separately? Who are you?
A dozen such as you have already asked this question and Answers have long been given.
There are comments on top, guess what they are for.
Where are the comments? There are only pictures. There is no text at all! ))))))))))
I use MTO-1000 as a telescope. He showed himself not very badly, although many spit. But he made some design changes. More details can be found here: https://nightspirit-observatory.blogspot.com/2016/10/testing-of-mak10-mto-1000-first-light.html#more
When you see how the roofs of high-rise buildings are spread out under the telescope - because of this alone, one will not turn away not to call such a gorgeous balcony an observatory! What is really there to hide - I'm just jealous! And the equipment: Finder, laser, solid mount, astrocamera, astro-filters, prism - everything is of the highest order! Respect!
But about the article - I would like to improve.
Firstly do not have your email, VC or other way to contact - not comme il faut. Not everyone wants to register on Blogger.
Secondly, I would like clarifications under the illustrations, even if the person for whom the article is intended is so clear. Let’s take the first photograph: what kind of seeker, what kind of mount, which way of the world view), etc. etc .. For some astronomers, this is often an additional reason to respect you. But they are read not only by those who are in the topic, but also, for example, by stupid amateur photographers, but in astronomy who are not boom-boom, and for them they definitely need to chew, not to mention the rest of the population.
Under the graphs, you could sign the name of the program that built them, and what it built.
Photo “Image of the Moon in 4 Barlow Lens Combinations” - is it really difficult to label each picture under them ?!
Thirdly, references to the used literature can be easily made as active hyperlinks to the section at the end of your article.
In the fourth hyper-links of the materials used, for example, the names of branches on forums, one could sign them with names, humanly, and not just give www-addresses to them.
Fifth, it’s not clear what kind of table you got:
"Here are the results of some stars shine assessments."
with references to "http://simbad.u-strasbg.fr". Fonts some microscopic - nothing to read. And look how it looks strange for people who turn off scripts with a specialist. Make it simple, but beautiful, and pictures to other people's websites and can sometimes be tyrit in low resolution - this is called "meets the criteria of fair use."
in the sixth, with the English section entitled "Asknowledgments:", and even the names of the authors in English (inAsrantsy INTO le?), very amused: you must be very young again! Readers, do you need to know English or what? Ahahah! Imagine know about this say - "Asknowledgments" in English is spelled wrong :-) Errors Fix!
And the rest (as sung in the song about the Marquis) - everything is fine, everything is good)!
PS Wikipedia promises to add a link to your site if you correct the shortcomings! Only the name of the eye cuts, it is impossible, for example: “Testing the 10-cm telescope-astrograph of Maksutov's scheme, represented by the MTO-1000 lens, using astronomical objects. "First Light". «Nightspirit-observatory» Group. "?
By the way, a year later the article improved significantly.
I recommend! ;-)
Hello. Here's a question. Tell me, I have an MTO 1000 Lens, and the Nikon D750 will appear soon. Will I be able to combine these two creatures and get a good effect! And the pleasure of a photo taken with them ... I read somewhere that I need to put an additional lens on the adapter to get infinity ....
750 pleasure to receive 1000 by MTO - no, it is not necessary to put the lens (in the survey indicated how to adapt).
Thanks a lot.
Alexey thanks for the promptness ... I won't get pleasure because of the not very good image quality? I'm ready for this .. Thank you. Still does not willfully sell will not, how interesting is such a lens, ideally with a box in the tree is not whether to sell his ideals and documents ... And it should be or let it lie for dolnyaka though not quality))) Thanks for all answers.
Hello, I really wanted to test the lens on Nikon D90. Ordered koltsa came wa, They said this is not one. I tried to put it, it’s okay to sit on Nikon, but I don’t like the transition to the Lens, it doesn’t stagger tightly. Tell me if there is one adapter in Nikon for this lens, and what is it called. Thanks to those who responded.
Adapter Chinese? They are a little wider. Yield, or find Soviet KP - A / N (in the survey indicated, read?) Or podmotat tape. Second, given the weight of the lens - no ice.
500mm f / 8 Telephoto Mirror lens with Nikon adapter
https://www.ebay.com/itm/500mm-f-8-Telephoto-Mirror-Lens-for-Nikon-D5100-D7200-D200-D100-D80-D70s-D7000/110788670866?hash=item19cb84f592:g:IJIAAOxymnFSEtLV
Tell me, without a converter, can I screw it into a camera? I have a Nikon D3400.
This "Samyang", they are well on any camera.
His quality is like in a lottery. Unsubscribe then what came to you.
It is difficult to regulate.
If the diameter does not necessarily need a little, and just want a foreign "Samyang", you can try a high-transmission version of F / 6.3.
And here on Radozhiv and a review of it:
https://radojuva.com/2016/03/samyang-mc-mirror-lens-500mm/
There MC MTO-11SA, was purchased in 1993 because of "want to", but in fact is not used, ie, new. The coffer and with 3 filters instructions. How can cost a miracle, who can tell?
If anyone in Latvia needs an MTO 1000 MS, then through Facebook the Marketplace in the Riga location, they sell for 200 euros.